CityCyclingEdinburgh Forum » Cycling News
Top cycling cities
(45 posts)-
Posted 12 years ago #
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But where's Edinburgh???? ;)
I actually took part in the survey that gave these results - questions all about how your city was to cycle in. I'm going to drop Mikael a line and find out just where Edinburgh did come in the list (if indeed they have a complete list).
Posted 12 years ago # -
guadalajara punching above its weight?
No melbourne, I hear it is good. It is inconceivable in my head that London can be a better cycling city than Edinburgh?
maybe anth was only edinburgher to fill in the questionnaire? Or he just didn't answer the questions correctly?
Posted 12 years ago # -
"It is inconceivable in my head that London can be a better cycling city than Edinburgh?"
This survey is based on these
http://www.copenhagenize.eu/index/criteria.html
London has a more visible rush hour bicycle presence than Edinburgh - and probably growing faster.
London road surfaces tend to be better.
Ken/Boris Bikes (not just hype)
Blue Routes - could be a lot better, but...
Edinburgh - Marchmont Road, The Mound, Teviot Place, etc.
Posted 12 years ago # -
"Or he just didn't answer the questions correctly?"
I'd be intrigued as to what the right answers would be...
Posted 12 years ago # -
p.s. Having ridden in both, I have to say that London is pretty much a doddle. And as chdot says, better road surfaces, and more visible encouragement of cycling.
One of the questions was, Is there a public bike hire scheme? Hard to answer that one incorrectly. Any city such as London gets an immediate bonus above Edinburgh with that question.
Another asked what bike parking facilities there were in the city centre.
Another if there were continuous cycle facilities through the city centre.
etc etc etc
Posted 12 years ago # -
Looking at the brief description of methodology and how the data was collected I'm calling this out as complete nonsense. I was going to pick it apart, but can't be bothered. I'm sure you are all more than capable of doing it yourself.
Posted 12 years ago # -
Oh, and the 'traffic calming' issue was an interesting one as the survey was out a week or so after Edinburgh decided it wasn't going to rol otu the 20mph zones.
Posted 12 years ago # -
"after Edinburgh decided it wasn't going to rol otu the 20mph zones."
Do you mean 'decided to do less than proposed' or have they cancelled without me noticing??
Posted 12 years ago # -
" And as chdot says, better road surfaces, and more visible encouragement of cycling."
I have to agree!
Maintenance not likely to get better anytime soon -
Posted 12 years ago # -
Methinks Edinburgh is just not 'cool' or big enough to matter to the Copenhagenize hipsters. I mean if they were going to let Edinburgh in, they'd have to let Ljubliana in too, maybe Münster as well. How about Utrecht? Rotterdam? Aarhus? Note the only city outside the Americas and Europe is Tokyo.
From the site: "2006 - the year that urban cycling started to kick off". 2006? Seems a bit of an arbitrary, myopic start date. "Urban cycling" took off when Copenhagenize said it did then. Says it all really.
Posted 12 years ago # -
I say it was 1977 -
http://cyclingedinburgh.info/2007/01/16/1977-was-a-good-year-for-cycling
Posted 12 years ago # -
Here are the criteria used (and some comments of my own)
The 13 Categories
Advocacy:
How is the city's (or region/country) advocacy NGO regarded and what level of influence does it have?
Rated from no organised advocacy to strong advocacy with political influence.Would Spokes count for Edinburgh? They're certainly a far better advocate and better organised and stronger than any "official" (QA)NGO like Cycling Scotland(?) or whomever.
Bicycle Culture:
Has the bicycle reestablished itself as transport among regular citizens or only sub-cultures?
Rated from no bicycles on the urban landscape/only sporty cyclists to mainstream acceptance of the bicycle.I think Edinburgh would tick all boxes here. But then why are "sporty cyclists" somehow to be deemed as something negatively weighted when what you are trying to measure is how cycle friendly the city is? I choose to do most of my cycling on a drop-barred bike with lycra and clipless shoes and a Specialized "road" helmet (cheap Cav knockoff). This decision is based solely on what I enjoy cycling in/on, find comfortable and practical, and find suits the weather/terrain. Edinburgh could remodel itself as a cycling infrastructure paradise and I'd probably attire myself exactly the same. Basically I don't want a big heavy upright bike on hills and with headwinds and I don't want to turn up at work soaked in rain and/or sweat. I much prefer doing 20 rather than 12.
Bicycle Facilities:
Are there readily accessible bike racks, ramps on stairs, space allocated on trains and buses and well-designed wayfinding, etc?
Rated from no bicycle facilities available to widespread and innovative facilities.
All fair enough and we all know Edinburgh could do much, much better.Bicycle Infrastructure:
How does the city's bicycle infrastructure rate?
Rated from no infrastructure/cyclists relegated to using car lanes to high level of safe, separated cycle tracks.
Again, Edinburgh could do much, much better, but we have the great assets like the NEPN, Innocent etc. etc. which should surely score us lots and lots of points.Bike Share Programme:
Does the city have a comprehensive and well-used bike-sharing programme?
Rated from no bike share programme to comprehensive, high-usage programme.
Can't deny we fail here.Gender Split
What percentage of the city's cyclists are male and female?
Rated from overwhelming male to an even gender split or better.
Sorry, what is the "or better" comment getting at? When there's an even gender split, how does it get better than that?
Modal Share For Bicycles:
What percentage of modal share is made up by cyclists?
Rated from under 1% to over 25%.
Modal Share Increase Since 2006:
What has the increase in modal share been since 2006 - the year that urban cycling started to kick off?
Rated from under 1% to 5%+.
Perception of Safety:
Is the perception of safety of the cyclists in the city, reflected in helmet-wearing rates, positive or are cyclists riding scared due to helmet promotion and scare campaigns?
Rated from mandatory helmet laws with constant promotion of helmets to low helmet-usage rate.
Okay without stirring the debate here, this feels like a loaded question from the anti-helmet side of the argument.Politics:
What is the political climate regarding urban cycling?
Rated from the bicycle being non-existent on a political level to active political involvement.Social Acceptance:
How do drivers and the community at large regard urban cyclists?
Rated from no social acceptance to widespread social acceptance.
Is Edinburgh really that different or worse than places like London or New York?Urban Planning:
How much emphasis do the city's planners place on bicycle infrastructure - and are they well-informed about international best practice?
Rated from car-centric urban planners to planners who think bicycle - and pedestrian - first.
I think there's a mix here. Planners in new developments ARE incorporating cycling infrastructure (e.g. Springside has the Morrison St. / Fountainbridge cut through, there are a lot of new lanes and paths laid out down at the Granton redevelopment, new path is slowly working it's way around Western Harbour / Platinum Point development).Traffic Calming:
What efforts have been made to lower speed limits in and generally calm traffic in order to provide greater safety to pedestrians and cyclists?
Rated from none at all to extensive traffic-calming measures prioritising cyclists and pedestrians in the traffic hierarchy.
After a big push a number of years back when I was at high school, round about when the Greenways went in, this appears to have slid down the agenda a bit. Positive noises around the 20mph zones although not as far or wide that a lot of us would have liked.So in summary, you could imagine where Edinburgh would score both positively and negatively, I do think there are some good positives. I also think there's a couple of questions of debatable merit in there that I feel are loaded towards biasing your Copenhagen / Amsterdam type cycling culture (perhaps even "fashion", certainly not meaning the infrastructure) as always coming out on top.
Posted 12 years ago # -
By sheer coincidence, 2006 was the year that 'Copenhagen Cycle Chic' was started.
Yep. Arbitrary. Myopic. I'll add narcissistic and self-referential too.
The survey is, frankly, hipster b*ll*cks.
Posted 12 years ago # -
Sorry, what is the "or better" comment getting at? When there's an even gender split, how does it get better than that?
Given Cycle Chic's 'heritage', this probably means 'better' opportunities for taking ever so slightly fetishising photos of pretty young women cycling in summer dresses.
Posted 12 years ago # -
"When there's an even gender split, how does it get better than that?"
Suppose it depends on what sort of gender split you want in your fashionably-clothèd-cyclist cycle photo blog.
One of London's advantages is that more of its residents have recognised the disadvantages and bottom-pain of car ownership for much longer. From the volume of cyclists, they have to be accepted, albeit not necessarily borne willingly or tolerated.
Posted 12 years ago # -
It's funny how much the Copenhagen Cycle Chic thing annoys a lot of pepole. I can genuinely see why, but I've also spent a bit of time speaking with Mikael over a pint or two about cycling (and Marc, the man behind Amsterdamize, over a pint - bit of a theme going there) and he's an engaging and passionate cycling advocate. Sure there's a style bias to the site, but after a while you come to expect that, in much the same way as Fat Cyclist has a sports cycling bias.
Same with the loaded helmet question - CCC is anti-helmet. I think everyone knows that. Bike Hugger is pro-helmet. I read both.
I did have a point to make here, but I've lost it. Er. I'll have a think, needs a new thread of its own I think.
Posted 12 years ago # -
"..after a while you come to expect that..."
Depends whether something seems central or ancillary, raison d'être or quirk. Not sure which [cycle-heavy European city]-ize Twitter stream it is I'm thinking of without checking but one of them often seems to be predominantly composed of lightly-sneering RT-ed links related to helmet-related articles/sites/stories. Stuff like that flavours their perception quite strongly, even accounting for (or constructing some valid) logic for the existence of the flavouring-behaviour from the initial pro-more-cycling premise.
Posted 12 years ago # -
During 2006 cyclists racked up 2.9bn miles in the UK - a modal share of 0.009% of total distance travelled.
During 1949 cyclists racked up 14.7bn miles in the UK - a modal share of 34% of total distnce travelled.http://www.dft.gov.uk/statistics/tables/tra0101
I think urban cycling has a long way to go before it recaptures its glory days in the UK. It certainly didn't "start in 2006".
Posted 12 years ago # -
@anth, I used to be agnostic on the Cycle Chic thang. See threads passim.
However I am now of the view that the Copenhagenize development is undermining itself through its arbitrariness. It's trying too hard to emphasises the hip aspects, which would be okay if it was not simultaneously trying to be taken seriously as a cycling advocacy initiative.
In order to be taken at all seriously by the 'opinion formers' it seeks to influence, it needs to sharpen up its methodology substantially. Otherwise, it is just the equivalent of GQ magazine for cyclists: occasionally interesting but ultimately superficial froth.
Posted 12 years ago # -
Hidden away in the 'results' of the survey: "Stockholm is lucky that Malmö doesn't qualify as a major city but hey, at least Oslo makes them look good. "
So, there is a 'hidden' criterion that the city must be 'major'. Which would perhaps explain the absence of 'minor' cities like Edinburgh, Cambridge, York, etc. But hold on, what is Portland doing in there? Is Portland 'major' in North American terms? Population is less than 600,000 making it the 29th city by size in the US.
But wait, Portland is America's cycling Mecca! It has to be on the list, right? Otherwise all those Portland bloggers are gonna kick Copenhagenize's butt...
Seems I guessed right. At least they are honest enough to admit it: "The Copenhagenize Index features primarily major cities but we threw Portland into the pot to see how the city would fare. Besides, we'll never hear the end of it from Portlanders if we leave them out. "
Arbitrary. Myopic. Narcissistic. Self-referential. Add self-serving to the mix, along with refreshingly frank.
Posted 12 years ago # -
What about Odense? I rated it highly even in bike friendly Denmark.
'Capital' cities are of course key in any survey as they represent more people / more influence. Edinburgh is a capital - but a small one.
Oslo is probably good for cycling too but is another small city.
The Hague is another example...
For international audience London is shorthand for Britain/UK just as Amsterdam is shorthand for the Netherlands.
Posted 12 years ago # -
I think the absence of Edinburgh in the list can perhaps be
explained by the fact that no matter how you measure it, there
is no way that Edinburgh is one of the top 20 cycling cities in
the world.Posted 12 years ago # -
This ^^^
Posted 12 years ago # -
Absolutely agree with Min.
And I could absolutely construct a survey that would return it as the No. 1!
Posted 12 years ago # -
Min - that is a very accurate statement, Guadalajara I will investigate further. In the halcyon days of the Gang of 4 somewhere called Peking was clearly the no1 cycing city in the world. The next 19 top cycling cities were also in China.
Beijing - I guess must still be in a real top 20 but I could be wrong.? If criteria were no. of millions of people still cycling it might still be no 1 by a long chalk [I don't know I am not making the claim I am just saying that the categories chosen were chosen for a reason and my category - total number of cyclists would similarly be biased towards Beijing, Mexico City and New York as huge cities]
The copenhagenise top 20 is as others have said - a rigged vote, not out of mendacity as they are open with their categories just designed to give no 1 and no 2 to amsterdam and copenhagen. Both lovely cities to cycle in.
Not sure how flat the other 18 are? San Francisco has hills
Posted 12 years ago # -
Given its concentration on "major" cities (with the honourable exception of Portland for its cyclists ability to give Copenhagenize a hard time), I suspect there are quite a few cities on that list that are in no way one of the top 20 cycling cities in the world either, on the assumption that it's easier to cycling-friendly-ize a minor city than a major one*. However, eye of the beholder and all that...
Posted 12 years ago # -
just noticed they haven't even gone for alphabetical order with two cities tied on 41 points and the 4 cities tied on 36 points
Posted 12 years ago # -
I'm still curious about Rio being one of the world's best cycling cities...
may have to go and investigate.....!
Will be giving the Favelas a miss.... may just have to stick around the prom at Copacabana..
Think Edinburgh has far too many enthusiasts cycling unusual/odd bikes and sporty things. To move us up the ranks people should buy a Paper Bicycle or walk...!
Just kidding of course.... diversity is good for business.
Posted 12 years ago #
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