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CityCyclingEdinburgh Forum » Infrastructure
Will Marchmont Road cycle lanes ever get re-painted?
(56 posts)-
Posted 14 years ago #
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Have been wondering this myself. Specifically for me the intersection of Marchmont/Kilgraston, Strathearn/Beaufort Road. Have been cycling across S-B, crossing Marchmont Rd most days (with child in child seat) during rush hours, and it is the worst intersection in both directions. Had actually wondered if they had been removed intentionally as they are so bad. Also why are cars allowed to park on the cycle lane? this (and cars turning right from Strathearn road into Kilgrastonrd) is what makes the traffic back up to Whitehouse loan between 8.15 and 9am everyday. Any ideas who we might hassle? (I live in Polwarth, so assume not my councillors)
Posted 14 years ago # -
Dave C :D
Posted 14 years ago # -
These lanes look very dangerous to me since they take you right in to the car-door-flung-open zone. I would not use them and would just make sure I was far enough away from the parked cars as normal.
Posted 14 years ago # -
Yes but,
It's usually OK if you ride towards outside of lane.
Properly marked lanes increase chance of drivers giving cyclists a bit more room.
But nothing's perfect - especially CEC's ability to plan the maintenance of existing infrastructure.
Posted 14 years ago # -
But how many cyclists realise that and how many will believe it is safe to ride in that lane just because it is painted there? Okay admittedly those cyclists would probably still ride too close even without the lane but the fact that is is encouraged by the council is just wrong IMO.
I am not convinced drivers give you any more room with cycle lanes anyway. In my experience, many just treat them like an invisible wall and just keep on the other side of the line. And no more.
Posted 14 years ago # -
"many just treat them like an invisible wall and just keep on the other side of the line. And no more."
True, but that also means they are less likely to pull in while/after passing you.
There is no doubt that red ASL 'reservoirs' are more respected than ones that only outlined by white lines - or where the red has worn away. I suggest the same is true for properly marked/red cycle lanes.
The problem with the Marchmont Road lanes is that not only is the red mostly missing, so are the white lines.
I know that some lanes work - e.g. Bruntsfield Place at Whitehouse Loan which I use with confidence most days. Before it was there I was cut up most days - now very rarely.
(Whether or not that lane should aim at the bus stop is another matter...)
Posted 14 years ago # -
Yes I agree that faded road markings should be replaced since they are just ignored otherwise-you can't respect something you can't see after all. I just disagree with plonking "cycle lanes" in places which are not safe or just plain pointless. I don't cycle round Marchmont so if you think those ones are safe then I will take your word for it!
Posted 14 years ago # -
And a (positive) reply: Renewal of Road Markings
I refer to your email dated 9 December 2009 regarding the above.
These locations have been added to the list of road markings to be renewed. This work will be carried out early next financial year when the marking squads resume work.
I hope this has answered your query, however if you would like to discuss further please contact John Gill, Area Road Manager South on 529 3487.
Posted 14 years ago # -
I suspect this will be the white lines rather than the red surfacing - but it's still good news!
Posted 14 years ago # -
Poor marking squads, they've got their work cut out.
Interesting that they need to work from a list. Surely they could just pitch up at any road in Edinburgh and find they have work to do.An interesting one is Murieston Crescent as you approach Dalry Road. The regular queues of cars tend to favour southbound traffic due to the extended pavements on the west side of the road. But the centre white line, which is almost invisible now, should really give a clear run to northbound traffic.
Of course, a couple of bikes would have less trouble passing each other at that pinch point.Posted 14 years ago # -
Given that the cycle lanes in questing are sub 2m wide and that there is increasing evidence that narrow cycle lanes increase the risk to cyclist. Maybe that is no bad thing. If you want to know more, there are a couple of papers here and here. No cycle lane is safer than a sub standard cycle lane.
Posted 14 years ago # -
Regarding the papers referenced by Kim. First, the Parkin paper does not show or claim to show that cycle lanes (of whatever width) 'increase the risk'. It shows that on 40 or 50mph roads (not 30mph) cars pass somewhat further out if there is no cycle lane. Parkin also mentions (can't remember if it's in this paper or elsewhere) that motorists are wary of crossing white lines - he is referring to the centre line of the road, but presumably equally the cycle lane line, in which case that plus could well balance or outweigh the minus of most cars passing you at say 2.0m rather than 2.1m.
The Warrington 'paper' really shows nothing. It is pictures picked out to support a case, but with no data or analysis. You can see how ridiculous that is by noting that the Warrington paper's pictures are wildly more alarmist than is shown by Parkin's research. Even given that the pictures have been chosen to support the case, personally I think I'd prefer the cycle lane in 2 of the 3 examples shown - certainly the one with no cycle lane and the white lorry bearing down on you from behind!
Another interesting point - a Napier Uni paper showed that motorists are far more likely to keep out of both bus and cycle lanes if they have a coloured surface. Neither of the above papers even state whether the lanes they studied had a coloured surface.
If anyone is interested enough, there's more on all this in various documents at http://www.spokes.org.uk - downloads - technical. Perhaps especially the 0909 paper, the 0710 one, and the Napier one at the end.
Dave
PS - Some cycle lanes are badly designed, some badly maintained, I totally agree with that!!
But overall it seems very likely that the widespread presence of onroad coloured lanes and ASLs is one of the main factors that brought about Edinburgh's increasing bike use over the last 10ish years, at a time when it was declining in most of Britain. Some of the evidence for this is on p7 of spokes bulletin 105.
Posted 14 years ago # -
Posted 14 years ago #
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Attend cycling training and this will help you to will help you ride harder and faster.
Posted 13 years ago # -
DdF - thank you for your analysis. I know I am sometimes deliberately winding up some of my fellow posters so my plea to actually read the papers objectively rather than from their own point of view, does sometimes get ignored (which is my own fault). So it is good to have your objective analysis without my wind up.
In a Popperian sense, thinking scientifically is about Refutation. Thus if you believe something (e.g. h-mets are bad) you should spend all your time trying to prove the opposite (e.g. h-mets are good) and when you exhaust all possible refutations, bob is your aunty.
Was reading Wittgenstein's Tractatus on the bus today - he was on about how you cannot think the unthinkable, then he lost me and I looked at the road surface and thought - I could cycle that.
Posted 13 years ago # -
Posted 9 years ago # -
I predict invisible-when-wet red chippings scattered sparingly in the tarmac near the gutter.
Posted 9 years ago # -
If they keep the white chips in the main carriageway it's not so bad. The invisichiped lane along the front of Stewart's Melville is visible as it's apparent black colour contrasts to the main carriageway.
Posted 9 years ago # -
Work has started -
Posted 9 years ago # -
And it only took 4 years? so much for the all-powerful bike lobby eh?
Posted 9 years ago # -
Posted 9 years ago # -
I wonder if it's possibly these works (and the temp lights at the Strathearn/Beaufort/Marchmont junction) which were resulting in cars being queued all the way back from Pollock to Scotsman yesterday evening?
Posted 9 years ago # -
@algo Can you confirm if they are keeping the cycle lane - it's so hard to see whether they have from your photo...
Posted 9 years ago # -
Hello @HankChief - sorry I am terrible photographer - you can just see a difference in the colour of the surface due to the red chips where the cycle lane should be. I imagine it is yet to be line painted … this one's from the other side of the road where you can maybe see the difference a wee bit better…
Posted 9 years ago # -
Algo - my sarcasm was too subtle.
Your photo perfectly highlights the concerns raised by Snowy & ACSimpson above - the red chips within the tarmac are very hard to see when wet (or in the dark).
Posted 9 years ago # -
oh sorry… can I retract my literal mindedness and just chortle in agreement then please?
Posted 9 years ago # -
The photo also nicely illustrates my thoughts about adding white chips to the main carriageway to provide some contrast. the difference between the old surface and the cycle land is perfectly clear.
Posted 9 years ago # -
It was much like a loch tonight, red chips, white chips, bag o chips......nothing would have helped this evening!
Posted 9 years ago # -
Posted 9 years ago #
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