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not resolvedRight folks, I'm meeting with our friendly neighbourhood cycle polis on Friday to do a piece in citycycling and thought I'd crowdsource some questions because, a. I might forget some things to ask, and b. I'm lazy.
It would appear that I'm reverting to 7 years old and am getting excited about getting inside a police station....
"It would appear that I'm reverting to 7 years old and am getting excited about getting inside a police station...."
As opposed to all the other times you've been inside??
Any policeman 'we' know?
I was actually pondering this and I've only been in a police station twice. Once when I was a wee lad handing in a £20 note I found (public spirited wee mite I was - I kinda hoped for a couple of quid reward but none was forthcoming); and then a couple of years ago reporting a driver who tried to swerve into me (ironically after complaining that I'd touched his car).
And yes. He's a very nice man with some very heavy armour.
Maybe this is more one for the lawyers: If we have a light on our helmets, do we really still need one on our bikes?
I presume they won't stop us for it, but that if we were hit, they would record that the bike didn't have legally required lights and it might be held against us?
The police station where I lived when I was seven was a desk in a nook at the end of the corridor between the two police houses. The village didn't get a proper police station until about 1988.
How often do the bicycle police patrols patrol the 'dodgier' bits of the path, particularly the Drylaw-Trinity stretch of the Roseburn-Newhaven path and the Craigleith-Blackhall spur where the attack took place the other week? What about the Duddingston-Bingham stretch of the Innocent where the uncontrolled yappydog lurked and where there is often a pile of glass in the chicane?
As well as patrols of off-road paths, how many regular road miles/hours do they generally cover in a day's patrolling and on average how often is action taken, considering the amount of dangerousness we can spot on a normal commute? Are they out and about during rush hours when people perhaps get more impatient and careless?
If we spot a bit of dangerous driving whilst out on our cycles (the usual stuff we rant on here about rather than a fully-fledged crash) what's the best method of reporting it? Crimestoppers? St. Leonard's station?
Anth, good timing, I was about to post a question to the forum.
As I am currently laid up, my wife is driving me anywhere of any distance.
So, yesterday morning we approach the lights at top of Marchmont Road, lights at red, we stop, indicating left to go along Beaufort Road.
Lights go green - and Alison doesn't move - odd I thought, until a cyclist passed our inside (at speed) and went straight on toward Kilgraston Road.
Apart from being incredulous at this guys move, I was so happy that Alison was aware of him, watching her mirrors etc as (had she moved off as normal) an accident would have been unavoidable.
Alison was (unsurprisingly) annoyed at the cyclist, but partly because she thought that she would be deemed at fault (maybe my influence re: bike/car accidents).
I said I thought not, as any vehicle (van/car/motorbike etc) should not undertake a vehicle indicating left at a junction - and shouldnt be any different for a bike.
However there are cycle lanes and ASL at the junction, so some cyclists perhaps assume this gives a right of way all the way across - ?
What would the police opinion be ?
p.s. get them to lock you up for 5 minutes, imagine that will be a cold sweat moment !!
You might like to ask him what Police think of "advisory" eg -
http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=4242&page=2&replies=51#post-47449
Ask him very specifically about ASLs - I believe they are planning some sort of 'driver education'.
Also about 'institutional' reluctance to enforce speed limits.
I kinda hoped for a couple of quid reward but none was forthcoming
In Scotland you're entitled to a finder's fee (15%?) of anything you hand in that is subsequently claimed - or so I was told when I handed a passbook with £70 in to St. Leonards.
I later got a letter saying it had been claimed and would I like to stake my claim. I passed up on it because I was far too lazy to go back to St Leonards.
SRD - the Road Vehicles Lighting Regulations 1989 (as amended) require all bikes to have a front position lamp and a rear position lamp which must be used between sunset and sunrise. The regulations prevent the use of lamps that can be moved while a vehicle is in motion, other than those attached to handlebars. I reckon this means helmet mounted lights could only be used in conjunction with bike mounted lights - although I doubt the police would really care.
thanks morningsider. that's kind of what i figured.
on a related note, was cycling along NMW last night behind someone with 'traditional' reflective pedals and was impressed at how visible they were, despite the bike's lights being less than adequate (perhaps old style dynamos).
There are plenty of questions to which the answer will be (if PY is anything to judge by) "in reality we don't care".
I'd be more interested in some insight into how bike patrolling is prioritised, for example, or how the police percieve the relative contribution to road safety of a) giving FPNs to cyclists or b) giving FPNs to drivers, and why it is therefore that 'safety' initiatives always seem to involve hammering cyclists, often while drivers pull outrageous stunts in the immediate vicinity.
For instance, the Cycling Silk spent some time on the beat with the Met mounted officers, who saw two offenders - an HGV driver on their mobile with no seatbelt, and a cyclist who jumped a red light. The former was let off, which does nothing to reassure anyone except readers of the Daily Rage.
You could tell them that their changing room on the top floor at the back of St Leonards could really do with a curtain. I can see right in.
@Nelly, I'd be interested in the response to that one. I (while driving) didn't do what your wife did, and was hit by a bike while turning years ago. My fault for not checking mirrors properly (and no one hurt) but it is one of those 'shared errors' that we could do with some guidance on; in a car if you hit someone from the rear it is clearly your fault.
@Anth, what plans are there to allow cyclists to easily report poor driving in a way that would allow patterns of behaviour to be followed up? (ie what @Wingpig said)
@mgj I suppose there's a difference between cyclists filtering and cyclists travelling on a cycle lane.
In the latter, you're turning left across a lane (cf turning left across a bus lane) - in crossing any lane of traffic, you should ensure that you don't cause users of that lane to brake or change direction. Of course, having the right of way doesn't matter if you're under a lorry...
Robert
@Nelly I agree with Roibeard There is a cycle lane on Marchmont road right up to the ASL at the junction so I would assume that cyclists have the right of way and any vehicle turning left there would have to check to make sure the coast is clear.
I see so many cars that have something wrong with their rear lights, and would therefore fail an MOT, what do the police do about this. Also mobile phone use, has their attitude to this changed?
As a schoolgirl I found £200 worth of bank notes, rolled up, on a pavement at the junction of Princes St and Frederick Street (this was a very long time ago let me tell you) which would probably be in equivalent terms today about £1,000, which after locating a copper (which was not difficult) and he and went to a police station where it was all documented. The money was claimed a few days later and I did not get a brass sou, the claimant declining to give me any reward for my honesty despite the police saying to them that it did deserve some sort of reward.
Do most ASL's not have a section of cycle lane leading into them, I am pretty sure that they do? Personally as a cyclist I would, if going straight on at this sort of junction, be taking into account lights on cars indicating that they intend to turn left and not chance cutting up the inside, that is just asking for it in my opinion, and is just not very sensible. Also could be construed as undertaking, which a good many cyclists do to other cyclists too, and which I personally find extremely irritating. It is that shoaling thing again...grrr
Yeah, yeah. I learnt that chain thing at school too... Do they use chains to measure cyclepaths?! I am still on the old money, but not that old! Never have come to terms with kph and prefer to use mph, although cms and mms have been mastered, as have kilos and grammes or even grams.
Most ASL's do have cycle lanes going into them, most however do not have a cycle lane coming out of the other side. So presumably you are then *undertaking* in the main traffic lane if you go down the left hand side of a vehicle?
I'm with Liz, undertaking cyclists are so annoying, as are those that *need* to get to the junction before you when the lights are at red and you are coasting, for you to then overtake them when the lights go green.
Oh question for the Police, not regarding cycling though, but I have seen a lot of this recently from L&B's finest....
How can you expect road users to abide by the posted speed limit when your drivers seem to be able to drive at whatever speed they fancy?
@roibeard @recombodna yep.....however the cyclist in question came from behind our car, so I would have thought that the person in front has right of way. Agree entirely if he was in the asl or alongside.
As Liz says, I wouldnt do it for self preservation reasons, not legal !
Anyway, hopefully one anth can get clarity on.
I have always considered myself undertaking traffic in a queue even if I am using the cycle lane, you are on the inside and left. The cyclist in mgj's post was fortunate not to have been hit. I always think that do not do on a bike what you would not do in a car. As a car driver, if you were narrow enough to squeeze through the gap, would you have gone up the inside and gone straight on - I think not - I rest me case me lud. I do not go up the inside of juggernauts or even buses if there is any chance whatsoever of the lights changing, you are just endangering your life.
Sorry have gone right off topic here. Yes, Anth some clarification on your rights in the case would be good!!!
I had one of my worst "offs" when filtering - driver turning right through the queue didn't see me filtering up it..
Have to say that I'm not keen on filtering since, and see the sense in filtering on the offside (like a motorcycle) rather than use the cycle lane.
Yet:
# 160
Once moving you should...
...be aware of other road users, especially cycles and motorcycles who may be filtering through the traffic. These are more difficult to see than larger vehicles and their riders are particularly vulnerable. Give them plenty of room, especially if you are driving a long vehicle or towing a trailer
# 182
Use your mirrors and give a left-turn signal well before you turn left. Do not overtake just before you turn left and watch out for traffic coming up on your left before you make the turn, especially if driving a large vehicle. Cyclists, motorcyclists and other road users in particular may be hidden from your view.
# 183
When turning
• keep as close to the left as is safe and practicable
• give way to any vehicles using a bus lane, cycle lane or tramway from either direction
All courtesy of our good old Highway Code (emphasis mine) - other driving codes of conduct are demonstrably available...
Robert
@Liz - have to say I avoid filtering now, treating myself more like a car, but (motor)cycles are indeed narrower than a car and can make better progress in traffic...
Is it queue jumping, or is it making progress - there are some beautiful, hypnotic videos of folk cycling in from Bearsden into Glasgow:
I don't think I'd do this, although if that was my daily commute, would I?
Robert
I think the operative words in the above quotes from the highway code are "once moving you should". In so many cities now there are bus/public vehicle/cycle lanes and you, as the car driver, are now out in other lane to the right and should you wish to turn have to cross over this.
It the road were gridlocked like in this video this I would definitely consider filtering as the cyclist who filmed this did. I used to in London on a regular basis where the traffic was at a standstill and no cycle lane due to double yellows and even reds. Not that I would be totally comfortable about it, and you would certainly have to be awake!!
No idea if it's true, but I was always taught that filtering is a grey area, neither illegal nor fulle endorsed. I take full advantage of the ability but will always filter either between lanes or ideally overtake the line on the right, left is a last resort and only if I feel it is reasonable/safe.
All the time bearing in mind that if I am involved in a collision I will have to justify my manouevre as being safe and reasonable.
I figure it's the trade that anyone can make, sit in the warm and dry listening to the radio, going nowhere and burning fivers or stop contributing to the jam, risk the odd bit of wet/cold and make good progress ;-)
I adopt the same style whether on powered or unpowered two wheels and have not yet had any complaints from the gentlemen with chequered hat bands (touches wood).
I *used* to be against filtering like that shown in the video, and have debated the point with the video'er. I thought it was very dangerous.
However, having moved house and now cycling a different route every day, I can say that thundering down the middle of Queensferry Road at 25mph on the downhill bit is most exhilarating.
I think it's become a little less grey, with the revised highway code - drivers are now advised to be aware of filtering (motor)cyclists and motorcyclists are advised to take care when filtering, which lends it a bit more credibility than the complete absence of advice in previous versions.
I'm still leaning on the non-filtering side though - I quite appreciate the opportunity to stop and catch my breath!
Robert
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