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Craighouse

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Started 12 years ago by SRD
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SRD
Moderator

thought we had a thread about this, but can't find it.

Interesting stuff here about planning permissions etc.

"The Existing Protections on the Site at Craighouse

What the Developers Said

The developers stated in their consultation materials:

'We propose enabling development only on existing brownfield sites or on areas previously allocated for development'

In reality they propose to develop on highly protected sites, including green areas that have never been “allocated for development”. Other areas, such as the orchard, were allocated in a 1992 development brief, but later officially rejected."

Posted 12 years ago #
DaveC
Member

I think I signed a pertition last week about this. Is this about the redevelopment next to the Uni site at Craiglochart? They wanted to demolish some old church?

Posted 12 years ago #
chdot
Admin

No it's at Craighouse.

Flats in old buildings (no-one objects) plus LOTS of new build which is upsetting people.

Posted 12 years ago #
SRD
Moderator

not sure. maybe different.

This is about the bit where the 23 bus turns around. currently part of Napier, want to cut down trees and turn it into housing.

My friends who live up there are concerned about the loss of the 23 bus, and also impact on school catchment as South Morningside already turning in-catchment pupils away.

Posted 12 years ago #
chdot
Admin

Developers want to build on parts of this -

plus on site of existing building behind camera.

Posted 12 years ago #
DaveC
Member

I think that was what the pertition was about. My friend in her 70's said she remembers sledging there when she was a child, so I'm guessing this is the same place.

She was also talking about flats being built in the existing buildings but that they planned to put newer buildings in front which would hide the nice old features of the old buildings. She also said, similar to the Infirmary, they would do the old building last so that it would look horrid, similar to the the old infirmary??

Posted 12 years ago #
SRD
Moderator

Yes, should have added loss of sledging to my friends' concerns! was actually the first thing they mentioned :)

Posted 12 years ago #
Greenroofer
Member

The developers keep going on about 'preserving green space', but there's a catch. They will indeed leave most of the slope in chdot's picture green, but I believe they plan to install a 'landform' in place of the slope. This isn't quite a Jupiter Artland/Gallery of Modern art thing: it's more just a series of terraces that will obliterate the existing historic rig and furrows on the hill. I am sure it has never crossed the developer's mind that it will render the hill useless for sledging, so it is retained as 'greenspace', but (unlike at present) it's not particularly desirable or accessible greenspace.

The developers also talk about removing much of the tarmac from the site. (In some cases this is because they'll put houses on top of it). Much of the tarmac is actually great for children learning how to ride a bike: so another local resource will be lost.

I'll have to stop before I get boring. We live in sight of the entrance, and it's hard to express how much of a loss this site is going to be to a large local community.

Posted 12 years ago #
Min
Member

"My friends who live up there are concerned about the loss of the 23 bus, and also impact on school catchment as South Morningside already turning in-catchment pupils away."

They want to build loads of flats there but remove the bus service? Really?

Posted 12 years ago #
SRD
Moderator

I think it may be subsidized by Napier?

Posted 12 years ago #
chdot
Admin

"They want to build loads of flats there but remove the bus service? Really?"

Well it probably depends whether any new development allows for buses to get in/out as easily as at present.

However in the meantime when the students are no longer there bus might be rerouted/ stopped short anyway.

Posted 12 years ago #
chdot
Admin

Posted 12 years ago #
chdot
Admin

Think the plan is to build on this car park.

Don't know where house owners' cars are planned to go.

Posted 12 years ago #
SRD
Moderator

This shows the proposed layout

Sorry. that's not very good. Click for for size.

Posted 12 years ago #
chdot
Admin

@SRD - that shows that 23 bus turnround loop would be built on.

Still not sure where all new parking is intended to go - under new flats presumably.

Posted 12 years ago #
Stepdoh
Member

I went to uni there, it was a lovely place to study and had a rather nice library (what happened to the rather nice library there? it had an amazing view, can't see it on the overhead shot)

The green space (and massive bunny population) was one of the great appeals of studying somewhere out of the body corporate of Napier (with rather so-so Union facilities).

Sighthill campus on the other hand. *shudder*

Posted 12 years ago #
chdot
Admin

A view from Craighouse (lens enhanced).

Posted 12 years ago #
kaputnik
Moderator

Sighthill campus on the other hand. *shudder*

When I was in 6th year, our high school tried to send us to Napier at Sighthill to do Higher computing as the main classes (5th years) were full and we were just doing it to fill in credits in the timetable.

Went once for the introductory class. No one ever went back. Happily settled for the "D" grade as was already going to Uni on (5th year) Higher results. Invested the time better by going to work in the ladieswear at Marks and Spencer during my "~~free periods~~" study time. I was therefore one of the first of my class to be able afford a Nokia 3210 and was ultra cool. It held 10 text messages and everything! (after which you deleted some to make room for next one)

One of the sillier aspects of the Scottish high school system.

Posted 12 years ago #
kaputnik
Moderator

Don't know where house owners' cars are planned to go.

Plenty of side streets round there

Posted 12 years ago #
Stepdoh
Member

Wow! White hot technology, my first phone was the awesomely specced Sagem MC820 the display had two rows of 12 characters!

Posted 12 years ago #
Morningsider
Member

Can't agree with the campaigners on this one. I live locally (I can see the Craighouse tower from my living room) and think this is a fairly decent proposal.

Napier were great custodians of Craighouse, opening up public access to the area for the first time (when I was a lad this was a mental institution and we all steered well clear of it). However, 'A' Listed buildings and manicured open spaces don't look after themselves and some commercial development of this area was always likely when Napier left. The suggested development is fairly sensitive, although I appreciate much will depend on the detailed proposals.

Greenroofer - from what I was told at the public exhibition, the landform is just a suggestion and the developer may well keep the current set up.

I can't see how developing the area for flats/houses would lead to the end of the 23 bus service, if anything taking out the loop through Craighouse will improve the service. I doubt Napier subsidise the service, particularly given they moved out of Craighouse six months ago.

Posted 12 years ago #
chdot
Admin

" 'A' Listed buildings and manicured open spaces don't look after themselves and some commercial development of this area was always likely when Napier left. The suggested development is fairly sensitive, although I appreciate much will depend on the detailed proposals."

I'm sure there are people who would like a world where 'nothing changes', but most people want 'not too much change'.

Developers do things to make make money. They usually 'over propose' with the expectation that things will be scaled back. Of course there is no guarantee that anything will be built - or the existing buildings converted.

It seems certain that the houses won't be particularly cheap. So it may be that they mostly won't be 'family houses' with young children trying to get into the local schools.

"I can't see how developing the area for flats/houses would lead to the end of the 23 bus service, if anything taking out the loop through Craighouse will improve the service."

At present half the buses are using Craighouse as a terminus, the others go to the Craiglockhart Campus.

It will be interesting to see how this one develops.

Posted 12 years ago #
chdot
Admin

"Land charity could root out solution to Craighouse row"

http://www.scotsman.com/edinburgh-evening-news/land_charity_could_root_out_solution_to_craighouse_row_1_2125029

Posted 12 years ago #
chdot
Admin

"Developers defy Napier’s Craighouse campus protests"

http://www.scotsman.com/news/developers-defy-napier-s-craighouse-campus-protests-1-2199252

Posted 12 years ago #
chdot
Admin

"CAMPAIGNERS fighting to save the Craighouse campus have been stunned after developers began working on ten-year-old plans for a building and car park."

http://www.scotsman.com/edinburgh-evening-news/edinburgh/campaigners-shocked-as-developers-start-on-ten-year-old-plan-1-2402094

Posted 11 years ago #
Morningsider
Member

I'm amazed the campaigners are surprised by this. Details of all these applications are available on the Council's planning website (e.g. ref 01/04599/FUL). It's common practice for developers to renew old planning permissions and to begin construction just before a planning permission expires (permissions used to last for five years, now reduced to three) so they can delay implementing a project indefinately (also recently clamped down on).

I'm not saying the developer is behaving well, quite the opposite - just that this shouldn't be a surprise to people in the know.

Posted 11 years ago #
Wilmington's Cow
Member

The application was available for public viewing in the planning department of Vogon for three years. It's not our fault you haven't invented space travel

Posted 11 years ago #
SRD
Moderator

Morningsider - that seems a bit unfair! Most people don't know these things. Campaigning seems to be something most people stumble into and is usually a question of learning rapidly 'on the job', and trying to figure things out as one goes along, usually while doing another job during the day. If helpful people with professional knowledge advise the campaigners, they are very lucky (and grateful), but not every campaign manages to make the right connections; not all professionals offer advice to such groups!

Posted 11 years ago #
SRD
Moderator

Here's my bit of naivety - the original application seems to have been for something completely different - how can the new developer claim to be digging as part of that permission? I know the Uni is in on some sort of deal with the developer, but how on earth can they claim that it is the same project?

Posted 11 years ago #
Morningsider
Member

SRD - You are right. I come across as a prize turnip in that last post. Given that the developers now seem to be acting in bad faith I'm happy to chat with, and assist, the campaigners on planning issues. If they want to take this offer up then can someone involved with the campaign PM me.

On your specific point - the developer presumably has no intention of completing the development that was authorised in 2001. They are simply noising up the campaigners, reminding the council of what they have previously granted permission for and possibly undertaking some useful preparatory work for any future development.

Planning and property development can be a dirty business - I've seen listed buildings burnt down in "suspicious circumstances", protected trees chainsawed and officials intimidated.

Posted 11 years ago #