http://www.scotsman.com/edinburgh-evening-news/tram_works_ban_is_a_hit_with_pedestrians_1_2004850
CityCyclingEdinburgh Forum » General Edinburgh
"Tram works ban is a hit with pedestrians" (Princes Street)
(30 posts)-
Posted 13 years ago #
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"The number of people visiting Edinburgh’s main shopping thoroughfare has naturally increased as the winter festive period approaches and was further inflated over the weekend by people popping for a look at that new cheap clothes shop. Suggestions that the removal of the tramworks prompted a sudden and magical increase in the number of people who need to spend money in shops were met with scepticism."
Posted 13 years ago # -
Not with my neighbour who complained to me that he was nearly hit by a cyclist. "They're silent!" apparently. Who knew?
Posted 13 years ago # -
One of the nice things about studded tyres. People always turn to look at you just to see what's making the weird sound, which removes the need for a bell and resulting etiquette. Not that I use the bell except on canal bridges; much friendlier to say hello and ask to pass.
Posted 13 years ago # -
I had a rare visit to Princes St on Saturday, driven by the snow "cancelling" cycling and a guilt about not having done Christmas shopping. It was much more pleasant than usual due to the extra space (as long you didn't do anything silly like try to enter a shop or the German Market (not for claustrophobics (which I am not))).
[Note nested brackets, which my English teacher would have hated but my maths teacher loved]
Posted 13 years ago # -
In my experience, the only way to make sure a pedestrian can hear you coming is to tow an unloaded Carry Freedom trailer behind the bike. Rattling noise means they have plenty of advance warning on all but the smoothest of road surfaces. Doiesn't work though when you are carrying more than half a kilo of weight on the trailer, it's then almost silent.
For some reason, the type of pedestrians that like to saunter into the middle of the road without looking where they are going also seem to be afflicted by selective deafness when it comes to bicycle bells. Bellowing "WATCH OUT!" at close range usually works to unblock their ear wax, however.
Posted 13 years ago # -
[Note nested brackets, which my English teacher would have hated but my maths teacher loved]
Tut, tut! Commas, semi-colons and dashes could have been alternatives. Or even just starting a new sentence.
Posted 13 years ago # -
Dashes - not that a longer proper dash (rather than just a hyphen between two spaces) is generally available in standard web-text thingbies - were one of the many things that were never taught at my school; similarly untaught, the semicolon had more appeal for me (perhaps because it seemed less popular (or possibly merely less noticeable (or even less memorable)) in the things I read) despite the otherwise admirable Mr Vonnegut's dislike thereof; hearing them mentioned in the context of right-wing scumbags apparently detectably employing them in speech was far more off-putting, but in the end any means of extending a written sentence far beyond the point when it would trigger Word's in-line wavy green underline grammar-error warning for no better reason than "long sentence (no suggestions)" (and long past the point when the length of the sentence remains beneath that which could be considered either easy to read or good writing style) is to be treasured.
I saw an emergency ambulance-vehicle taking advantage of the absence of any other motor traffic by going the wrong way along Princes Street on Friday evening.
Posted 13 years ago # -
Language is interesting especially in its links to culture but in the end maths is far more rational and *arguably* more beautiful.
Posted 13 years ago # -
Campagnolo freehubs are also an excellent pedestrian-warning device. Smooth running, siltent Shimano ones are not.
Posted 13 years ago # -
What you need is a Hope fishing reel freehub. My mates got one and it drives me nuts when we're just cruising along.
Posted 13 years ago # -
The Surly has hope hubs and I can confirm that, even though it has quietened down, it still saves ringing the bell at times :-)
Posted 13 years ago # -
I've got some of those wind up motor bike reving engine noises handlebar handles. Frightens the life out of peds on Princes Street. Brummm!!! BRUMMM!!! (My children are not best pleased as I nicked it off their bikes)
Posted 13 years ago # -
Admit it Dave, you make the "Brumm Brumm!" noises yourself, and go "Nyeoooooooow!" as you pass them :D
Posted 13 years ago # -
"Sounds of the future for electric vehicles"
Posted 13 years ago # -
Language is interesting especially in its links to culture but in the end maths is far more rational and *arguably* more beautiful.
What is human mathematics but a specialised language for describing a highly specialised and arcane cultural belief system? Oh, and please don't start on about 'universal laws' which have been 'proved' by mathematics. Not to say that the results of mathematics and science are not interesting, valuable ways of describing the world and its phenomena. To say though that maths is more rational than language is to miss the inescapability of language for humans: science, as part of human culture, cannot break free from language.
Posted 13 years ago # -
@crow
did you ever try Formal Semantics? A way of using mathematical language to try to say what it was possible to say without ambiguity. I recollect a lot of curly brackets.
I believe I received 56% for my exam, which I believe in the world of formal semantics was what you would call a fail.
Posted 13 years ago # -
@crowriver I should have known better than to put forward such a controversial statement, especially as I am not equipped to rebut your response. I'm okay at maths , not so good at language. Mind you, there is some incredibly beautiful maths.
Back OT: Princes St was so nice at the weekend, I may well go for another visit, esp if I can pick a quieter time when its easier to make the most of the culinary delights.
Posted 13 years ago # -
Princes Street traffic ban to continue
PRINCES Street is set to remain free from traffic after the current tram works are complete as part of new trial into permanent pedestrianisation.
Posted 13 years ago # -
Still think they're missing a trick. Pedestrianising George Street would be a better move in my opinion.
Princes Street wouldn't really be pedestrianised if the trams were running, so why not keep all public transport there together, on a street that can take the heavy traffic, and turn George Street into a lovely wide boulevard with cafes spilling out?
I can but dream.
Posted 13 years ago # -
Yes! This is a good idea. Pedestrianise George Street too and put the buses on Queen Street?
Posted 13 years ago # -
I guess it's an option, but again I'm not sure the Queen Street basements could take the constant buses. Nah, I figure if the tram is on Princes Street put the buses there as well. I guess it's getting in the way of an iconic view, but Princes Street is a bit of a cheap mess anyway.
Posted 13 years ago # -
It'd be a shame to not let buses back onto it after they complete the work to strengthen the road surface around the tracks to be able to cope with buses' tyres.
Posted 13 years ago # -
Yup, completely agree with Anth. When you see George Street free of parked cars you can imagine what a fine boulevard it would be, with the Assembly Rooms as a centrepiece worthy of the New Town.
George Street doesn't work as a bus-thoroughfare though - it's far too congested and feels like a dangerous environment for pedestrians due to the combination of parking cars, taxi and car u-turns and accelerating buses. It shows how much bus traffic Princes Street is able to absorb.
How's about pedestrianising both Princes Street and George Street?
Posted 13 years ago # -
But there will be no need for buses when there are trams? We all get off a bus at St Andrew Square, get on a tram to Haymarket, then back on a bus again?
Posted 13 years ago # -
"George Street doesn't work as a bus-thoroughfare though - it's far too congested and feels like a dangerous environment for pedestrians due to the combination of parking cars, taxi and car u-turns and accelerating buses. It shows how much bus traffic Princes Street is able to absorb."
Plus the new pedestrian phases on George St are an absolute urine extraction. I tried to time one once to see how long it took to get round to the green man again but eventually gave up.
Posted 13 years ago # -
"That would mean all traffic – except the eventual tram – banned from the street."
Well they can't mean ALL - though they'll probably try.
If it becomes peds (+ bikes) + trams, the latter won't be able to speed along which was part of the reason for only one tram stop.
When this tram scheme was devised the plan was for few/no buses on PSt as most bus routes would end at Haymarket and the East End somewhere.
Obviously 'everyone' said that they wouldn't interchange - bus/tram/bus - so the idea went away. Don't know if anyone actually worked out how to create two new termini/turnrounds.
As ever, transport in Edinburgh makes little sense.
Posted 13 years ago # -
I would make more sense for the buses to go along Queen Street, it is wider than George Street, at least with current parking that is allowed in GS. There are buildings only on one side whose basements/foundations would be affected by the sheer volume of buses thundering along. If they do allow buses to go along PS once the tram is completed, there will be no room for anything else. As I have cycled a fair amount along GS before and after the tram stop/restart, the road is in an appalling state and really something should have been done in the hiatus/break between arguments to improve the road, but that was not done, and it is deteriorating further and further, in fact it really is a complete nightmare to cycle, dodging buses, parked cars or cars randomly coming out of parking spaces, potholes, wave of tarmac, the lights at some of the junctions are incomprehensible as to which way they work and seem to take forever to change, and then there are the pedestrians running, walking or just stepping out in front of you. If the buses ran along QS the argument is that it is too far away from the tram and PS. Might do some folk good to get some exercise and have to walk. However, I would be in total favour of the buses and trams going along PS and turn GS into a cycle route.
Posted 13 years ago # -
@wingpig
The longer dashes are en and em dashes, so called because in leaded type they have the same width as the en and em characters in that particular font.Posted 13 years ago # -
Well I must admit to my complete surprise in the increase in shoppers spend on Princes St. If we have heard the car lobby saying one thing its that stopping car driving along streets will end up with closed shops as people can't get washing machines on the back of bikes, or on foot....
I like the move to shift busses out of the 'centre' but I don't think Queen Street will be promoted as people come from both sides to Princes St to get busses. Shoppers would have to cross the road to get the bus heading east. Much better to prohibit parking on George Street and remodel like 'The Briggate' in Leeds. Busses are routed through (one way ony I admit) a pedestrian area. It feels much safer having one platform for pedestrians and busses than the traditional pavement on either side of a road.
Looking at Brigate now it looks like they have completely removed busses...
Posted 13 years ago #
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