CityCyclingEdinburgh Forum » General Edinburgh

"Battle of Caltongate on the cards over new £300m plan"

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  1. chdot
    Admin

  2. wingpig
    Member

    "...a predicted shortfall in grade-A office accommodation..."

    What?

    I assume the only area in which this shortfall it predicted to occur is within a small area bounded by New Street and Old Tollbooth Wynd to the east and west and Canongate/Calton Road to the south and north.

    I quite like the way that "as well as satisfying demand from international hotel operators" is couched with so much gravity, as if the consequences of not fully satisfying the demands of international hotel operators will include Edinburgh being razed with nuclear weapons and pushed into the sea.

    Posted 5 years ago #
  3. chdot
    Admin

  4. gembo
    Member

    This is a large piece of waste ground where amongst other things an underground carpark used to be positioned. The claim is to keep the facade of the old sailors'ark, not sure where the old sailors will go and canongate ventchie, which is derelict school I think Norman McCaig the poet may have been the Heidie at. It had a free exhibition of hammocks amongst other things this festival. The buddleia has grown well on the site and the graffiti artists, including one female, have been kept in employment on the hoardings. Also keeping the Jeffrey street arches as artisan outlets.

    Basically the developer is going to put up an office block and houses on a now derelict site. I don't have the history but we need to engage with developers in a robust way to stop them taking the mickey. our fury we should reserve for fracking and fascists?

    Posted 4 years ago #
  5. AKen
    Member

    Wait - there was a free exhibition of hammocks and I wasn't told?

    Posted 4 years ago #
  6. crowriver
    Member

    I remember when it was still a working bus garage. They started renting some of it out as parking space in the late 1980s/early 1990s. Apparently before that it was a gasworks. Also remember lots of crustafarians at the Bongo club on the weekend.

    Some development, as long as it is handled sensibly, won't go amiss there. I'm sure the Council are fed up with having a big gap site next door.

    The gap site on Greenside Place was there for a decade or more: what an eyesore that was, with the foundations built and rusting reinforcing rods poking out like dead tree stumps. Hoardings plastered with foot thick layers of club and fringe posters, rotting wooden pedestrian barrier right next to lorries and buses thundering past on Picardy Place. Better now, with public space at least.

    On the other hand while strolling on Regent Road the patch of greenery where the bus depot used to be is quite pleasant.

    Posted 4 years ago #
  7. chdot
    Admin

  8. kaputnik
    Moderator

    Nonsense. It will be a bustling metropolitan hub, just like the Quartermile. Or Springside. Or the "Canal Quarter".

    Oh...

    It does look utterly appalling. At least they've got the shadows right on the first picture, with Market Street in semi-darkness from the tall buildings looming over it on the northern side.

    Posted 4 years ago #
  9. Morningsider
    Member

    Allan Murray Architects - also responsible for the Omni Centre. It was always going to be a steaming pile.

    Posted 4 years ago #
  10. chdot
    Admin

    "

    a swathe of derelict land close to Waverley Station will be transformed into a vibrant hub of leisure, retail and office space boasting a large civic square at the heart of the five-acre development.

    "

    http://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/news/caltongate-masterplan-to-win-city-backing-1-3281496

    Posted 3 years ago #
  11. gembo
    Member

    What new building could go in that space that the historic antiquarians would like?

    Posted 3 years ago #
  12. Snowy
    Member

    I must admit that I've become a bit cynical about the oft-used developer phrase "vibrant hub of leisure, retail and office space" since it normally translates in reality to "cookie cutter office building with a shop unit underneath".

    However, the proposed plaza is a plus point.

    Posted 3 years ago #
  13. chdot
    Admin

    "However, the proposed plaza is a plus point."

    But will it get any sun?

    Might it be more attractive than Festival Square??

    Posted 3 years ago #
  14. gembo
    Member

    The plot is very large. Virtually from high street down to calton road. Might be some sun in summer but would need to be high up in the sky. The area is overlooked by calton hill and various buildings. Quite gloomy. The former primary school and former Canongate Ventchie (same place) remains intact, old red sandstone building will contrast with the glass and steel.

    The waste ground is not nice to look at, the buddleia is very fecund.

    Posted 3 years ago #
  15. SRD
    Moderator

    @gembo it is possible to add new buildings to old in ways that critics and users appreciate. But I am not sure it can be done in the size needed here.

    As an example, I would suggest a visit to the catholic Chapel off George square lane. It's is a totally modern space attached to an oldish building that generates a really nice, calm, reflective space (as appropriate to its use).

    I know chapels aren't to everyone's taste - I was dragged there by a vehement atheist. But it is worth visiting just to appreciate what can be done when space, location and use are taken insto consideration by architects.

    Posted 3 years ago #
  16. gembo
    Member

    Might go for a wafer at next PY?

    Posted 3 years ago #
  17. kaputnik
    Moderator

    If Caltongate is anythign like any of the other "vibrant" mixed use concrete and glass boxes with appliqué sandstone panel and slats that have dominated recent construction in Edinburgh then it will have half-occupied offices, empty ground floor retail units bar a few chain coffee places and metro supermarkets and will be completely devoid of human life at night.

    There's unused units that have never been occupied and have sat empty for 5 even 10 years in many of the modern developments around town. Edinburgh's not a city that's really crying out for more retail and leisure space.

    Posted 3 years ago #
  18. cc
    Member

    Edinburgh's not a city that's really crying out for more retail and leisure space.

    Though of course it could be, if the city was a lot more pleasant for people on foot or on bicycles.

    Posted 3 years ago #
  19. chdot
    Admin

  20. PS
    Member

    Could the architects not have added a few pastiche gable ends?

    On a more sensible note, anyone know how much more expensive it would be to build a complex on this scale using facing materials sympathetic to the local vernacular?

    Posted 3 years ago #
  21. SRD
    Moderator

    It's been passed. 8-6

    Posted 3 years ago #
  22. PS
    Member

    Councillor Ian Perry, Convener of the Planning Committee, said:"There will be substantial investment across the site in the public realm"

    How do we make sure these substantial public realm investments make adequate and appropriate consideration of cyclists given the city's ambitious targets for active travel? [/yeah, I know]

    Posted 3 years ago #
  23. Snowy
    Member

    Was on the High Street today, all the shops were sold out of brown envelopes, inexplicable ?

    Posted 3 years ago #
  24. chdot
    Admin

  25. chdot
    Admin

  26. chdot
    Admin

    From email -

    "

    If you don't have the time to read the following and haven't yet signed the updated petition, do take a moment to add your name of support and share with others:

    https://you.38degrees.org.uk/petitions/no-confidence-in-the-city-of-edinburgh-planning-department

    Caltongate Update:

    It's almost a month since the Council granted planning permission for the controversial Caltongate development in the face of considerable opposition.

    As this is such a significant and controversial matter that threatens the World Heritage status of Edinburgh we haven't given up...

    Following Alexander McCall Smith's outspoken views a growing list of other prominent individuals have come out of the woodwork to sign a letter of support. This reads:

    Edinburgh: A Fragile Heritage

    The Old and New Towns of Edinburgh represent a cityscape of international importance. Not simply are they one of the jewels of Scotland and Europe but the tourism they generate produces millions of pounds and thousands of jobs. It seems unthinkable that this legacy should be under threat.

    Yet Edinburgh today faces the greatest assault on its heritage since the failed Abercrombie plan for massive city-centre redevelopment of the late 1940s. A Council seemingly without a clue, a Planning Department without a clear plan and a developer motivated entirely by short-term financial gain are conspiring to tear apart the fabric of this great city. Recently, despite a petition signed by over 5000 people in the space of only a few days, the City Planning Committee approved ‘Caltongate’ : http://www.ama-ltd.co.uk/New_Street.html This massive stale, sterile modernist confection of concrete by a South African speculative developer which is completely at odds with its surroundings, is to be built in the heart of the Old Town, just a few hundred yards from the historic Canongate Kirk and Holyrood Palace.

    One councillor who voted for the scheme declared it ‘not hideous enough to oppose’. Opposed by every community group in the Old Town, it’s only confirmed tenants so far are a UK Pub chain and a Premier Inn.

    Other utterly unsuitable developments are coming up for approval elsewhere and are increasingly eating into the fabric of this great city.

    Edinburgh is not just our city – it is your and the world’s heritage. We need your help now. We need your support by adding your signature to the following petition (click on the link below), in which we:

    - call on the Council to halt by whatever means possible the Caltongate scheme
    - call on the Scottish Parliament to intervene to save the city where the scheme will be situated
    - register no confidence in the City Planning Department in its current form and membership
    - call on all parties to put in place a clear and coherent development plan for the city which:
    - preserves its heritage
    - prevents development unsympathetic to surrounding architecture
    - puts in place guidelines to produce development sympathetic to the areas of the city in which they are placed
    - provides affordable housing for local residents
    - prevents speculative development.

    Two hundred years ago the legacy of our ancestors was the New Town of Edinburgh. Unless something is done urgently today’s legacy will be Caltongate. How will our descendants 200 years hence judge us if it goes ahead?

    Government bodies such as Historic Scotland have said nothing. Edinburgh World Heritage has been silenced by Council pressure. It is now up to the people of Edinburgh and their supporters to take the lead.

    Please help us by signing up to our campaign and spreading the word to as many people as possible. Speed is vital. It is only with the support of thousands that we can save a unique part of the world’s heritage from irreparable damage.

    https://you.38degrees.org.uk/petitions/no-confidence-in-the-city-of-edinburgh-planning-department

    Yours sincerely

    Hugh Andrew
    William Boyd
    Hugh Buchanan
    John Byrne
    Artemis Cooper
    William Dalrymple
    Lucy Ellmann
    Janice Galloway
    Ian Jack
    Jackie Kay
    AL Kennedy
    Alexander McCall Smith
    Amanda Mackenzie Stewart
    Todd McEwen
    Candia McWilliam
    Andrew O’Hagan
    Don Paterson
    Robin Robertson
    Lachie Stewart
    Irvine Welsh

    Please help to spread the word so that the many thousands of individuals who love this treasured city, but have lost faith in the Council, can add their voice in championing the case for reform so that the long term best interests of the City are upheld and an exemplar vision for the 'Caltongate' development finally realised through the process of community empowerment.

    Think Global, Act Local – Patrick Geddes

    "

    Posted 3 years ago #
  27. chdot
    Admin

  28. gembo
    Member

    I see the graffiti artists have accessed the site and put up some very large mentchies on the traditional yellow wall. Including Mr Youts who has actually decorated his name with some degree of aplomb. What will Mr mate and mr Cigz make of that.???

    Posted 3 years ago #
  29. Roibeard
    Member

    "mentchies"? Not even Google can help with that one...

    A misspelled frozen yoghurt, or a Jewish doll?

    Robert

    Posted 3 years ago #
  30. wingpig
    Member

    Autocorrect versus a dialect word derived from 'mentions'?

    Posted 3 years ago #

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