If I get killed on the road I want you all to make as much fuss as you can about it, or I will haunt you. And I don't want anyone saying "oh, she wouldn't have wanted to see the driver punished harshly." If I die because some idiot squishes me, I want them in prison for ever and the driving ban to extend into the afterlife.
CityCyclingEdinburgh Forum » Commuting
Cyclist dies after crash in Edinburgh
(82 posts)-
Posted 12 years ago #
-
Whilst I have no desire to add to the suffering of relatives of the deceased, should they happen across this forum, I do think that the discussion here is only natural. It is a public, online version of what cyclists may be saying to each other in person in cafes when a fatal accident involves "one of their own".
The fact it plays out more publicly, online, is not only an unfortunate consequence of the way social network media functions, but also of the way 'rolling news' evolves from the sparsest summary to a more detailed picture over the course of a day. People fill in the gaps in information, and leap on any new snippet which is passed on by journalists or others who have gleaned something from witnesses or medical workers, for example.
I don't see anyone trying to apportion blame as yet, that is a matter for the police. I realise it is sensitive when someone has been killed but I don't see the harm in folk trying to find out what may have happened.
My sympathies are of course with the relatives and friends of the man who died.
Posted 12 years ago # -
"The only solution to speculation such as this is not to allow threads to be started with links to news stories about cyclists being killed. Possibly one for admin to consider."
I've considered it.
I think that would be undesirable!
People die on the roads every day. People using bikes die, this affects people on this site in various ways.
I'm sure everyone here has sympathy for family, but also wants the chance of it happening again to be reduced.
One way (statistically) is more people cycling.
Posted 12 years ago # -
Posted 12 years ago #
-
If you click above link you'll see a name and that they are a member of ERC.
Last year when a prominent CTC person was killed by a car there was discussion (here and elsewhere) about some sort of 'road safety awareness' ride, but some family members objected.
Posted 12 years ago # -
I would also like to give my explicit approval to any and all discussion of my own death and/or injury - just for the record.
Providing obvious stuff like contempt of court is avoided, (or libel, or whatever) I can't think of any imaginable downside of having it out in the open.
As far as I'm concerned, people who are distressed by discussion of a tragedy are obviously welcome not to participate in it, but can hardly ask that nobody else does. Respectfully, we don't have a right to be protected from everything in the world which we find distasteful, especially when people are directly effected.
For instance, in the last few years two cyclists have been killed on or adjacent to the roads I ride along twice a day. Dr Ian Wilson was crushed when the driver of a Neil Williams Haulage truck turned left over the top of him near George Square, then Mr Craig Newton was crushed when the driver of a bin lorry turned left over the top of him by Broughton Primary.
In one or both of these cases, the driver may have failed to exercise due care by turning left without being certain their nearside was clear. Alternatively, both cyclists might have been doing 35mph+ and ridden up the inside of the vehicle after it started turning, trying to beat it round the inside of the corner.
The point is that years go by with no feedback on what is actually killing / injuring cyclists, so to argue that immediate comment should be kept for later is not much use, because there is invariably no 'later' to discuss.
I bet a £20 donation to Spokes that no conclusion is ever drawn from this recent death in terms of a public statement of what happened (or a prosecution). I've heard it said that unless you're actually found drunk at the wheel, you won't be prosecuted in Edinburgh for any type of collision with a cyclist (I don't believe this myself, and hope to be proven wrong eventually).
Posted 12 years ago # -
According to the Evening News:
<quote>Inspector Steven Boyle said: “The man was cycling down the hill and we think he has come into contact with a large goods vehicle, which has caused him to collide with the back of a parked car.“The driver of the large goods vehicle failed to stop.
“It would appear that the large goods vehicle has been overtaking the cyclist and has come into contact with him.
“The impact caused him to collide with the back of the parked car. There is no suggestion that the rider was doing anything wrong.”
A police spokesman later said a man had been detained as the investigation continued.</quote>
Which may (or may not) be as close as it gets to official
Posted 12 years ago # -
Pretty public now -
Posted 12 years ago # -
Retired Liberton High headmaster Joe Vettese, who lives in Lanark Road, said the crash highlighted the need to reduce the speed limit from 40mph to 30mph. He said: “There are two speed cameras on the road but between the two cameras it’s a free-for-all.
“I wrote a letter to the traffic department at the police a couple of years ago saying the speed was excessive and why don’t they slow it down to a 30mph limit. For a built-up area, 40mph is excessive.”
He added: “Any accident which proves to be fatal is always a terrible shock. There’s a lot of traffic on this road and everybody has to take great care. I think it would be absolutely essential to reduce the speed limit.”
This is a good idea, but might not necessarily prevent a similar incident from happening again.
Credit to the police, they have found the lorry, arrested the driver and are doing the forensics. They just need witnesses to corroborate whatever conclusions they have reached as a result.
Posted 12 years ago # -
Many of us will have been on the receiving end of unnerving "punishment passes" at the hands of HGV drivers, often on fast downhill stretches such as this.
I don't think that "campaigning for safer cycling routes" is the answer. Only a complete u-turn in public perception as to what constitutes dangerous or careless driving can make a real difference, and that takes decades of continual reinforcement to achieve.
Our politicians and councillors have failed us, time and time again. They have blood on their hands.
Posted 12 years ago # -
"Tribute to Edinburgh cyclist who died in crash"
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-edinburgh-east-fife-16447618
Posted 12 years ago # -
Safe home tonight everyone.
Posted 12 years ago # -
@bax -
[quote]I don't think that "campaigning for safer cycling routes" is the answer. Only a complete u-turn in public perception as to what constitutes dangerous or careless driving can make a real difference, and that takes decades of continual reinforcement to achieve.
[/quote][i] - hear hear.Many of the people on this forum have campaigned ceaselessly for years being involved with bike campaigns such as Spokes, Cyclebag (Bristol equivalent to Spokes) and Sustrans since their inception. How much difference do you think this has really made in 30 years - precious little believe me. We have a fantastic network of cycle routes in Edinburgh brought about largely by this ceaseless campaigning. Some measures on the roads have been introduced such as ASL's and cycle lanes - those cycle lanes have a broken white line at the side which entitles car drivers to use it which they do consistently even with cyclists using them. Check how often the ASL is blocked by vehicles when the light is red (probably 90% of the time). Where there are actually segregated sections of cycle paths such as around Leith Links they are inevitably blocked by cars, and only on Tuesday this week I actually saw a car reversing out from between the pavement and the island, having literally parked on the segregated section. By and large cycling has become more dangerous for a great many reasons, but vehicle size and speed are contributory factors, as well as just the sheer number of cars/vehicles on the road, but more significantly is the attitude of many, many drivers, and the fact that they actually have very little knowledge of the highway code and regulations that apply to cyclists, and many believe that cyclists actually have no right to be on the road, where they think we are allowed remains largely a matter of speculation.
Posted 12 years ago # -
As an addendum to the above - the perception as to what constitutes dangerous and/or careless driving could be brought home to drivers who flout the law by driving in such a manner that when caught get the sort of sentence/fine appropriate to the offence and actually end up in court.
It would also help a great deal if the police actually took cyclists seriously when they report such incidents of dangerous driving, which I have done, with witnesses, and never heard anything further and in fact was laughed at derisively by the policeman who was actually also pretending to take notes. Where do you go from there...I would really like to know. Ask to see their superior, go to the organ grinder because the civil servant whose salary you pay with your taxes is not taking you seriously and could not actually give a toss, because yes, you guessed it - you're only a cyclist and you must have annoyed them!! Don't know what you're complaining about, you're still alive aren't you?
It is not only when driving either, numerous cyclists have been assaulted physically by car drivers, who have got off Scot-free. Under normal circumstances if you were randomly assaulted in the street, and charges were pressed, and you had witnesses, the assailant would get done - but somehow you being a cyclist....well you must have annoyed them, or asked for it.
Posted 12 years ago # -
I unreservedly apologise if I caused any offence with my much earlier "graphic" post.
I deeply regret the death of any cyclist under these sorts of circumstances, and my condolences, thoughts and sympathy go to his family and friends. RIP+
Posted 12 years ago # -
Doctors want something done about it. Who is going to listen? Interesting the comparison to knife crime and it's victims. In London there are special police units that deal with knife crime and that alone, is there such a facility for cyclists? Not that I am aware of.
Posted 12 years ago # -
Liz,the comments on that London article are obscene.
It demonstrates exactly what cyclists are up against.Posted 12 years ago # -
Indeed it does Custard. We are really up against it...As has been discussed ad nauseam here and probably on other forums is the perception of cyclists by motorists and a complete disregard for freedom of choice by the car fascists/fanatics/petrol heads. We get admonished for wanting safer roads for us. We get admonished for getting in their way and going too slowly for this day and age on an outmoded form of transport. We get admonished for being anti-car... need I go on? Let's face it we are just a bloody nuisance and deserve to be run over and killed, seems that it is okay for car drivers to say that sort of thing and woe betide us for criticising their driving skills (or lack of them) or capabilities (more like incapabilities) but hey!!
Posted 12 years ago # -
Condolences to the family of this young man.
Posted 12 years ago # -
My thoughts too are with the family and friends of the man who has been tragically killed. It really hits home when you think "that easily could have been me" and that in a similar situation, there's literally nothing you can do to protect yourself from high-speed, too-close passes from HGVs or other large and heavy vehicles.
I don't think me saying anything more about something I don't know the full details of will achieve much. I think most people though do want to somehow express their sympathies and voice their shock at what happens. I'm sure I'm not alone in thinking "something must be done, this is not acceptable, we can't go on like this".
I'm in London for the weekend and today cycled through the infamous Kings Cross junctions, past the very prominent ghost bike where the young lady was recently killed. The ASL box right beside it was full of vehicles... Sad, frustrating...
Posted 12 years ago # -
I've ridden that road many, many times. My thoughts are with his friends and family.
Go safe everyone.
Posted 12 years ago # -
EEN now suggests he rode into the car then was hit by the lorry - which is obviously quite different to previous reports that he was hit by the lorry and went into the car. I'm guessing that's more the bias of the writer (or even an unintentional slip) than an investigation outcome though ;-)
However, it's easy to imagine being in position to pass a parked car when a lorry pulls longside and if it then moves in (oncoming traffic, island, whatever) - where do you go?
There are certainly things to think about, especially when the casualty is a long-term and expert rider.
Generally I always argue that being assertive is better than hoping drivers will behave safely unprompted, but at the same time, there are probably occasions where I've committed to something like passing a parked car, but if a long vehicle half overtook then moved in, what's my backup plan? Hmm.
Posted 12 years ago # -
This sad incident happened on my daily route. I will not speculate as we have done enough of that(without using names). I noticed the mans friend expressed his condolences on the ERC website and the scotsman journalist lifted his heartfelt words and put them in the article. I imagine journalists can do this routinely with any info on internet without seeking permissions.
Posted 12 years ago # -
"Despite the family’s devastation, they have vowed to bring something positive to the tragedy by setting up a memorial for Andrew to raise cash to help make cycling in Edinburgh safer."
http://scotsman.com/edinburgh-evening-news/fundraiser_s_stepson_is_cycle_crash_victim_1_2042770
Posted 12 years ago # -
Here's the memorial fund website:
http://www.andrewcyclist.com"We ask for your help to fundraise, and to join our campaign.
If you’d like to help us in any way please do get in touch."Posted 12 years ago # -
"
lynne mcnicoll
(@itsgood2give)
Posted at 9:21 PM January 8, 2012 on Twitter
"
If you'd like to leave a message of support for our safer cycling campaign add it here: http://t.co/KKPEhrgc
"Posted 12 years ago # -
Man arrested over death of crash cyclist Andrew McNicoll on Lanark Road
A 53-year-old man has been arrested and charged with a driving offence following the death of a cyclist in Edinburgh.
...
A Lothian and Borders Police spokesman said they had charged the man with death by dangerous driving.
Posted 11 years ago # -
Well no speculation and all that.
Taken some time, but presume all evidence now in place.
Sad, but 'progress' I hope.
Posted 11 years ago # -
Yeah, one of those ones that I want to say 'good news' to, but in the circumstances feels completely wrong. The legnth of time I'm wondering if some 'new' evidence or a new witness has come out of the woodwork - but they must now be fairly certain (also fairly certain the charge will get negotiated down for a guilty plea, unless the new evidence is so conclusive, or the driver is 100% adamant of his innocence - which he is at the moment until proven otherwise).
Posted 11 years ago #
Reply »
You must log in to post.
posts
