I doubt any one ever described justice as swift... Lets just hope the PF don't "deal down" to careless driving.
CityCyclingEdinburgh Forum » Commuting
Cyclist dies after crash in Edinburgh
(82 posts)-
Posted 11 years ago #
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I was recently involved (as witness) in a dangerous/careless driving case.
It eventually went down to careless driving and driving without Insurance blah-de-blah. Took 19 months and 3 cancelled/deffered court dates to get from incident to court at which point defendant pled guilty at last possible moment (and probably further reduced any slap-on the wrist).
All the time he had been driving around of course, despite the 9 points-worth of previous offences, not having insurance and having nearly wiped out 20 cyclists then T-boned a van on a roundabout.
Posted 11 years ago # -
Getting appropriate verdicts in careless/dangerous driving cases is clearly important for making the roads safer and appear safer. Hopefully the politicians are beginning to understand that.
Posted 11 years ago # -
I hope this helps in any closure for Andrew McNicoll's parents.
Dave C
(privately I beleive that any offender who wastes police and court's time by admitting guilt at the last minute should have no reduction in sentence, for wasting the authorities time).
Posted 11 years ago # -
Aye a sliding scale for sentence reduction based on how quickly you cough to it.
Posted 11 years ago # -
A lot of them don't plead guilty until the date of their trial so they can still get their Legal Aid. If they admit guilt earlier they don't get access to this.
Posted 11 years ago # -
So if they pled guilty first off, when say they were first arrested, would there be any need for legal aid?
Posted 11 years ago # -
You still need representation to make sure the police aren't going about things in a way they shouldn't and to represent you in sentencing/offer pleas in mitigation and so on.
Posted 11 years ago # -
Surely, they would still need legal representation at hearings, including sentencing. If that's effectively lost as a result of pleading guilty I can understand why someone would hold out. Anyway, you'd need to be a bit of a mug to plead guilty and be punished a moment earlier than you had to, even if that outcome's inevitable and especially if there's no incentive.
Posted 11 years ago # -
Andrew McNicoll
Lorry driver in Sheriff Court today.
Case expected to finish on Friday.
Posted 10 years ago # -
I was almost run off the road by a lorry today howdens artic. The guy overtook me and then pulled in on me before he was past I had to slam on the anchors. Road was the M9 I was driving the van!! Then I watched 2 artics blast through a light which had been red for about 2 seconds at the Hermiston gait roundabout. Dhl trucks.
Posted 10 years ago # -
HGVs are limited to 50 or 56mph on a motorway depending on whether or not they have a limiter fitted. How slow were you going in your van? Under 56mph?
If not, why not look up the operator's licence here;
http://www.tan.gov.uk/tanen/vosa_anonymousoperatorsearch_new.asp
and start pestering their Transport Manager? Any firm that carries other people's goods in an HGV has to have a named Transport Manager, responsible for the safe and proper use of the firm's vehicles.
Posted 10 years ago # -
I can confirm that Murray drives well qithin the limit, sensibly and courteously, having been taken for a ride in his Luton van.
Posted 10 years ago # -
And the M9 under the Newbridge roundabout is a 50mph zone. I was driving into a headwind with a fully loaded luton listening to a wtf podcast with Harry dean Stanton.
Posted 10 years ago # -
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-edinburgh-east-fife-26667983
"A lorry driver has been acquitted of causing a cyclist's death by careless driving."
My thoughts are for Andrew's family. I hope this can help in closure. Regards, Dave C
Posted 10 years ago # -
What a farce the jury system is...
Posted 10 years ago # -
"However, a jury returned a majority verdict of not proven against the HGV driver."
This is NOT an acquittal under Scots law. It essentially means "we think you're guilty, but we can't prove it".
Posted 10 years ago # -
Notice the EEN is allowing comments on this article. Its not exactly a "report of a detah of a cyclist" which they said they dont allow* comments on, but close enough to let EEN get their click earnings up. To hell if any are offensive to the mcnicolls.
* sometimes they make a mistake...
Posted 10 years ago # -
Andrew's family are understandably disappointed.
http://www.andrewcyclist.com/blog/
If they do decide to start civil proceedings then I wish them all the best.
Posted 10 years ago # -
This got the editor to take down the comments:
@gedwardsistaken said @edinburghpaper didn't allow #insensitive #predjudicial #contempt comments on death verdicts http://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/news/man-cleared-over-death-of-cyclist-andrew-mcnicoll-1-3348358 …Very suspect that the only time they accidentally upload to allow comments on a verdict, it is a cycling case <gulp>
Posted 10 years ago # -
Nice one soigneur.
Posted 10 years ago # -
Cheers. I just followed threefromleith's pioneering work in the Galbraith case.
This case shows the PFS is between a rock and a hard point. In this case they bravely chose to go for Death-by-Dangerous, close but no cigar. If they had gone for Careless Driving, they would likely have got a conviction but with very limited punsihment under the sentencing guidelines.
It worries me if the defendant has his HGV licence renewed in the next few years and is still on the road.The civil case looks to be the best chance for some justice for the family.
Posted 10 years ago #
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