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The size of a lorry's blind-spot, even when fitted with extra mirrors. #cyclesafety
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CityCyclingEdinburgh Forum » Resources
"The size of a lorry's blind-spot"
(13 posts)-
Posted 12 years ago #
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In fact, the blind spot is smaller than I thought it would be, so that's a positive - there's no excuse for a driver not seeing me in all sorts of places that I thought they might miss me ;-)
The comment says it all for me though. While I completely agree that cyclists should be careful around HGVs whether the HGV is being driven with due care or not, the problem is that the message is really unbalanced.
If you can't see immediately in front or to the left of your vehicle, whose problem is that? Not the general public's, in any sane world.
In some ways it's like making up a map of where people get raped, and that being the extent of rape prevention activity. (The obvious counter to that is that unlike rapists, lorry drivers who kill are, I'm sure, 99.99% devastated that they turned left over the top of someone. Just not devastated enough for the vehicles to be made safe, whether by them or industry pressure. "It will never happen to me" syndrome?)
It's also interesting that almost invariably, the HGVs involved aren't big artics but smaller stuff like cement mixers and bin lorries, and the drivers are disproportionately paid per-delivery. Coincidence?
Posted 12 years ago # -
I have had a fair number of close encounters with buses, and few with HGV's. On all of the occasions with the buses, they have overtaken me only to turn left, and when they have done so are not fully past me when making the manoeuvre, causing me to have to come to a complete stop or get squashed. At least there might be several witnesses who might have found in my favour but I would not bank on that. With the other deaths in Edinburgh caused by tipper/bin lorries there have been no witnesses to the preceding events and it is entirely possible that they have overtaken the cyclist coming up to a junction just to do what I have described above, unfortunately there have been railings in two of the cases at the particular corner where the cyclist has effectively been completely hemmed in with absolutely no where to go or means to get out of the way. The driver is not going to own up to dangerous driving or driving without due care and attention....no way.
Posted 12 years ago # -
Hgv. a generic term for many different types og heavy vehicles, i drive a large, largest on uk roads , and if all i could see were outwith that blind spot i wouldnt drive it ! That blind spot isnt the danger one, its the one where you/I cant see the cyclist/pedestrian/small car/dog whatever actually getting to the n/side. !The mirrors on that wagomn must have been set by the drivers mum ! the forward facing(idiot mirror )one should be able to see much further forward and the fish eye on the n/side WILL, if adjusted properly give a good view to the n/side. I know lorries are dangerous, I am already, althouigh slowly due to lack of funds aiming to become bikeability trained to deliver REAL training to young people, and others, who want to cycle. My employer has already confirmed that i can get the use of a 44 ton 6 axle unit and trailer, which is 16 feet high, not a nice flat bed that you can see over.After recently driving at dusk, in manchester recently, believe me our roads are much safer, (percieved !) as every second cycle in that town was in stealth mode, no lights, hoody and actually leaning against my n/s.Yes smaller vehicles do tend to be bonus related multi drop, but they ALL have inherrant dangers, not just the blind spot, when the air tanks blow the safety valve, (regularly)they can scare the bejessus out of most non hgv people !500 bhp can spin the wheels of even the heaviest, causing momentary panic amongst on lookers.I think that most of my collegues actually see a cyclist/other road user hanging back, or avoiding the lorry then they will return the favour ! Obviously not every ones so resonable ! BE SAFE everyone, no matter what we drive/ride/ walk !
scottPosted 12 years ago # -
just read my own post, in no way am i trying to say that the n/s blind spot isnt dangerous ! sorry if it sounded like that ! 360degrees around is dangerous, and no way am i trying to defend arsehole drivers !!
Posted 12 years ago # -
"I am already, althouigh slowly due to lack of funds aiming to become bikeability trained to deliver REAL training to young people"
Perhaps your LA has some money for this -
Posted 12 years ago # -
Seems to me that a truck driver giving bike training would be pretty useful! :thumbsup:
Posted 12 years ago # -
thanks, funding is on going, youth scotland, air training corps and bike club and various others all being pestered !many favourable outcomes already ! Aim to get involved with Helix trust, Falkirks "take the right/green route " Want to set up our air cadets , get them trained and then into training, we have two cycling staff members, one will train on mtb other on road stuff.Alredy got 6 kids on bike maintenance course, all funded and looking good !Another 6 start next month . Hoping to get them along to the boness cyclocross event, just as spectators ,for now ! My manager is a cyclist and he is 100% behind me using the trucks to teach awareness.
Will keep all informed about training, and if all goes ahead then i will offer all our services to anyone who wants/needs it !Trying desperately to aquire a LA mtb fleet that is being renewed but we seem to be hitting brick walls , politicaly speaking !But hey if we need to then we will just blag some stuff from the recycle people and get our kids to rebuild them ! A mobile workshop/van type bike doctor , for kids or non employed people is also on the list of things to do , but that takes money, so we will just blag that too !
be safe, and if any one else wants a lorry along for demos, then give me a shout, as long as its properly organised, risk assesed and off road, then i am pretty sure i can come up with the goods !ASDA have my company name on the side though !no such thing as bad publicity !
scottPosted 12 years ago # -
It seems, from the Scotsman article about the tributes to Andrew McNicoll following his untimely death, that his folks want to set up a fund to promote safer cycling in Edinburgh.
They are keen to consult with cyclists to see what's needed. Lorry drivers training cyclists, or indeed cyclists training lorry drivers, would seem a very positive and welcome idea.
Do you think you could set up training for FirstBus drivers to 'see' cyclists like the Lothian Buses drivers do now that they've had training?
Posted 12 years ago # -
Magnatom reports that First Bus impressed him with their attitude to safety when he met with them following an incident.
It didn't appear that they had cycle specific training at that point.
Robert
Posted 12 years ago # -
I think the LGV one is roughly correct. The taxi one is definitely spot on.
Posted 12 years ago # -
That blind spot photo isn't terribly helpful. It is 2D blind spot in a 3D world.
Presumably if I stand just inside the orange line then he will see me, or at least my upper body.
If I was to lie down flat he wouldn't see me, but I don't tend to do that in ASLs.
Posted 12 years ago # -
@kaputnik. Hehe that's worryingly true.
@cb. Never underestimate when you'll find yourself lying down in an ASL, it may happen when you least expect...
Posted 12 years ago #
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