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Brakes Question

(30 posts)
  • Started 12 years ago by Wilmington's Cow
  • Latest reply from wingpig
  • This topic is resolved

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  1. I've got used to commuting with the fab discs on the X the last few days, which has really highlighted how poor the Kaff's brakes have become over time.

    On my Kaff what I would looooove to do is stick a disc brake on the front (and preferably the rear). But this would mean new forks (in the 'wrong' colour); new wheel; new (more expensive) brake and rotor (x 2 if doing the rear, plus a 90 odd quid conversion kit for the frame).

    I'm trying to cut back on bike expense this year after finishing the X build last year, and really keen to get the Sunbeam up and running, so budget options for better braking are in my mind.

    Could just get some new cantis and see if that makes a difference (no matter what different pads I've tried in the current brakes they just don't seem to grip the way they did).

    Could it be that the rims on the wheels are actually the issue (need to check again tonight, but I'm sure I noticed they'd got a little concave the last time I paid any close attention)?

    Is it possible to fit Vees? Got the mounts, given they'd go on the canti mounts, but the issue is more the drop levers not pulling enough cable. On the X, for the discs, there's a noodly thingy to fit along the cable that creates the necessary pull, is there a similar option for Vees on drop levers?

    The braking has got to the stage that I've lost a lot of confidence in riding the bike in the wet, which is, ironically, when it tends to get ridden as it has 'guards and the X doesn't.

    Posted 12 years ago #
  2. wingpig
    Member

    I noticed a massive difference after replacing the garbage canti brake and lever (singular as I've only done the rear so far) on sparebike with a still-nameless-but-less-plasticky brake and lever from the Bike Station. Similarly when the budget Tekto caliper on the front of properbike was replaced with an Rsomething50 it was noticeable slightly less budget despite the longer reach.
    Wouldn't Vees® by definition have a noodle across the top? I thought that's what made them Vees® rather than direct side-pull cantilever brakes. Don't think it does anything other than allow the transverse cable to be omitted.
    Didn't ruggtomcat mention something about the levers on his Tricross and direct-pull cantis about eighteen months ago somewhere?

    Posted 12 years ago #
  3. Nelly
    Member

    Discs are brilliant, I dont use them often myself, but suspect you get 'used' to the better performance, and ride accordingly - perhaps leaving braking later than ayou would on a standard set up.

    I have some half decent Tektro dual pivots on my SS (commuter) and they are surprisingly good - I could throw myself over the bars if I really hit the front hard (perhaps not in the wet).

    In the wet, no real issues, but to be honest I havnt had an emergency stop for a wee while !

    Ask in the bicyle works, they really sorted my brakes out a year or so ago, and I have only needed blocks since.

    Posted 12 years ago #
  4. steveo
    Member

    Your levers won't natively support the extra cable pull from Vees but you can get an adaptor. Given the cost of converting to disks I'd say give this a try, though tbh from what I've read Mini-Vees for road bikes tend to be a bit on squishy side.

    Posted 12 years ago #
  5. Uberuce
    Member

    I understand that Mini-V brakes such as on my Genesis have a short enough pull for caliper levers.

    I'm yet to use a disc braked bike so I can't compare and contrast how good the V's are. I'm not going to try any harsh V-braking to see if they could throw me off the bars, not until the studded tyres are off.

    Posted 12 years ago #
  6. Hmmm, having read a bit more it seems mini-Vees may not have the clearance for the 'guards. Vees do indeed need a(nother) noodly thingy, but would work. BUt with CX growing in popularity again there actually seems to be more choice in the canti market than when I built the bike up (3 and a half years ago) so I think I'm going to go with a new set of those and upgrade the cables at the same time.

    (also considering converting it back to proper drops the same as the X as those bars don't seem to be causing any trouble, and the moustache can then be used on the Sunbeam - maybe).

    Posted 12 years ago #
  7. kaputnik
    Moderator

    I guess 2 questions here;

    Q1 - Can you make your cantis stop you like discs? A1 - no
    Q2 - Can you improve on your current cantis? A2 - yes.

    By which I guess I mean yes you can improve cantis with better units (perhaps also new cables?) and perhaps cleaning up the rims with solvent. I've read somewhere somethign about roughening up the braking surface of the rim with something abrasive, but can't recall where.

    If it were me, with something like brakes I wouldn't fancy coming up with a Frankenstien fix of trying to bodge a Vee-brake in there (my experience of them anyway is they are equally rubbish as cantilevers)

    Posted 12 years ago #
  8. crowriver
    Member

    I've had the opportunity to try out quite a few different braking systems lately, due to my bike collection growing at a ridiculous rate over the past 6 months.

    Discs on the Ute are fantastic for stopping power. Re-calibrating necessary every so often to stop squealing noise.

    V-brakes on the Globe hybrid and Raleigh folder are very solid and dependable, good stopping power as you'd expect. Pads wear quickly in the rain.

    Cantis on the Raleigh Pioneer are fiddly to set up but pretty solid, more modulation than V-brakes. However they've started squealing lately, maybe I have some dirt or grease on the pads. Means I have to apply both front and back simultaneously to stop rear brakes squealing. Might just be that they're less powerful than V-brakes on descents so more prone to squeakiness...

    Coaster (drum) brakes on my new wee folder are incredibly efficient (never get wet), but take some getting used to. Big disadvantage is not being able to position pedals to 'attack' mode at traffic lights without rolling bike forward. Leads to a much more gentle riding style, fine for pootling in town but not touring.

    Dual pivot calipers on single speed are pretty good, a bit soft compared to V-brakes but on a very light bike perfectly adequate.

    Single pivot long reach calipers on BSA Twenty with chromed steel rims are surprisingly not as bad as I feared. Fine in dry conditions, a bit more challenging in rain! I don't use the Twenty much but might invest in some pads with leather strips to aid braking in the wet.

    Posted 12 years ago #
  9. DaveC
    Member

    Anth.

    You're on a budget? YES

    You want something simple? YES

    I can't beleive no one has said this already... move the mudguards from the Kaff to the >X< then use the Kaff in the dry and the Cotic in the wet.

    Simple.

    Posted 12 years ago #
  10. Pshaw!

    Kaff 'guards are brown, firstly, which would look HIDEOUS on the X. And secondly, more practically and less vain, the 'guards only fit up to 28mm tyres and the X has 32s...

    Posted 12 years ago #
  11. crowriver
    Member

    An extra set of mudguards may be the cheapest and easiest option.

    http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/Categories.aspx?CategoryID=32&SortBy=Price

    Posted 12 years ago #
  12. ruggtomcat
    Member

    Mini-V's are working well for me, tho now ive been on discs for a while everything else seems silly.

    Posted 12 years ago #
  13. DaveC
    Member

    I have mudguards on the Cotic for upto 40mm, so you should have plenty of clearance if you buy any end of stock TBC studded tures, as I did.

    Posted 12 years ago #
  14. Extra guards have been considered, and will be bought at some point for the X. But that doesn't really solve the problem of a bike with less-than-perfect functioning brakes... ;)

    Posted 12 years ago #
  15. crowriver
    Member

    New Shimano Cantis can be had for very little, if that is where the problem is. New cables might sort it, or just shortening the existing ones to compensate for stretch.

    It might be the rims have become polished by the braking. As kaputnik suggests, clean with solvent. Fine sandpaper to roughen them a bit?

    Posted 12 years ago #
  16. Had a check of the brakes last night. VERY draggy when pulling, so I think the cables need replacing. Going the whole hog (just sold some stuff on ebay which will cover the cost) with some nice Jagwire cables (got them on the X and they're smooth as silk) and new Avid Shorty 4 brakes. Will treat the rims as well/check they're not about to fall apart.

    As an aside, looks like my old silver 'guards might juuuuuust fit on the X. Clearance for the tyre is tight, but do-able. Gonna have a go tonight.

    Posted 12 years ago #
  17. This ---> :) is a smiley face.

    Replaced all of the cabling (did the gear cables as well so that they're all matching... who would have thought gold braided outers would look so right?) and put the new brakes on. The difference is astounding. I even managed to lock the rear wheel inadvertently despite having the heaviest Carradice I've loaded on in a while strapped over it.

    Back onto the commuting steed of choice (I love the X, but there's something about the Kaff that exceeds it - the only way I can put it is the X is like a Spitfire, but I always loved the tough, no-nonsense, land it with holes shot all through it, Hurricane, and that's my Kaff).

    Happy happy happy.

    I had a feeling it would be better given the struggle I had getting the old brakes off the studs, if they're that tight they're not going to pivot terribly easily now are they?

    Posted 12 years ago #
  18. Uberuce
    Member

    Forgive my n00bscum, but where does the difference come from? A cable's a cable unless it's snapped, surely? Evidentally not since it obviously works, but I can't see where the difference lies.

    Pretty sure I'll need to replace mine too; they're probably the originals.

    Posted 12 years ago #
  19. amir
    Member

    You need the cable to pass through the cable outer as smoothly as possible, particularly with gears.

    Posted 12 years ago #
  20. Stepdoh
    Member

    What's everyone's thoughts on re-using the outers (as long as you can get the original cable out of them?

    Just got shome new shifters landed on my desk this morning (which if anyone had seen the state of my current ones, would agree was much needed) and wondering if I should just replace the gear cable inners or do a whole new run?

    Posted 12 years ago #
  21. wingpig
    Member

    Prob replace the lot including the ferrules for that new-bike airy-fresh feeling. No matter how well-sealed the ends of the outers there's bound to be some gunk creeping in somewhere.

    I used to occasionally think that my rear shifter cable was sticking in the last wee bit between where the inner re-entered the outer at the end of the chainstay and emerged into the mech (where it was particularly exposed to all manner of horrible gunks) but the problem always (twice) turned out to be the cable being chewed inside the shifter.

    Posted 12 years ago #
  22. Stepdoh
    Member

    What like this?

    *the shame*

    Posted 12 years ago #
  23. Uberuce, cables can get 'gunky' (especially if used in all weather) which can hinder smooth movement. Depending on the quality of the coating of the cables as well this can cause wear and the like which can similarly affect movement. In truth the worst of my problem was the brakes themselves, but the cable to the rear especially wasn't running smoothly at all.

    The gear cables were replaced as well for purely aesthetic reasons. Black gear cables and gold brake cables? What would people think?

    Posted 12 years ago #
  24. chdot
    Admin

    "should just replace the gear cable inners or do a whole new run?"

    I'm sure there are people who will replace the lot 'on principle' - not that expensive.

    Obviously you think that's a bit wasteful.

    Certainly I would not usually replace outer if still in good nick - not damaged, AND allows new inner to move freely.

    I would certainly replace an outer if the inner came out wet and rusty as there would bound to be bits left inside.

    Posted 12 years ago #
  25. kaputnik
    Moderator

    Just use a decent cable/housing cutter when installing or you'll make a big mess of them...

    Also, in my experience, putting old cables through a new housing is a recipe for frustration and damaging the housing lining.

    Posted 12 years ago #
  26. Stepdoh
    Member

    When I looked at replacing just the inners, and since I'd run out of end caps etc, the kit below seemed the way to go.

    http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Clarks-Universal-Gear-Cable-Set-MTB-Road-Bike-RED-/160618910301#vi-content

    The wait for the delivery will give me the opportunity to thoroughly degunk the bike.

    Posted 12 years ago #
  27. chdot
    Admin

    "I used to occasionally think that my rear shifter cable was sticking in the last wee bit"

    Today I was intending to replace my rear gear cable as the change was sticky.

    Last night I sprayed the rear mech with WD40 - worked fine today!

    Another job postponed.

    Posted 12 years ago #
  28. kaputnik
    Moderator

    I had a non-shifting rear mech couple of weeks back - would shift shift down but not up. Thought it was cables too, but there was lack of lube on the pivot points of the parallelogram. Has worked swell ever since some WD40 resuscitation

    Posted 12 years ago #
  29. First wet commute with new brakes... These are so much more up to the job. Added to my 'simple pleasures' list - changing something on the bike in the hope it makes it better and finding out it actually has made it better.

    Posted 12 years ago #
  30. wingpig
    Member

    Last night I finally bent my sparebike's mudguard stays sufficiently to be able to get to and from work with no rubbing-noises. Next: trimming the rear mech to stop the chain jumping into the spokes.

    Posted 12 years ago #

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