Whoops I missed some. No-one (or hardly anyone) buys equipment for things they are not enthusiastic about. All of my bike equipment has been bought because I love bikes and cycling. Would I cycle to work if I didn't? Certainly not, too hostile. I only do it because I love it.
CityCyclingEdinburgh Forum » Debate!
At what point is technical clothing 'bad'?
(119 posts)-
Posted 12 years ago #
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"I only do it because I love it"
You sure it's not because you want to be pigeonholed as "other"??
Posted 12 years ago # -
Well there is probably a certain amount of bloody-mindedness about it. ;-)
Posted 12 years ago # -
Sitting in PY with quite a varied and motley crew of fellow "out-groupers" feels quite nice. There's a great "us and them" banter, we moan about the same stuff, we don't identify with the general public (to a greater and lesser extent, and all my own observation).
I do believe that the way cyclists look has a strong effect on cycling participation and cycling advocacy - however, I don't care enough about cycle participation or infrastructure to want to be a positive role model.
For instance (controversy alert) I look at the photos from the protest and even I find myself thinking "
cyclists[small irrelevant subgroup] wanting special treatment" rather than "normal folk asking for fair treatment" which is what it really should be. To a non-cyclist I suspect this alien gulf is really large.Posted 12 years ago # -
For instance (controversy alert) I look at the photos from the protest and even I find myself thinking "cyclists [small irrelevant subgroup] wanting special treatment" rather than "normal folk asking for fair treatment" which is what it really should be. To a non-cyclist I suspect this alien gulf is really large.
Is true.The clothing stuff is an infrastructure thing.
The cycle-specific stuff is mainly in the interests of comfort and safety: Wicking/comfortable clothing taking into account the physical exertion (which I'd say is by and large much greater on the road, on aocount of average speed, the need/urge to keep up with traffic/get away from lights quickly etc); flouro clothing for self-preservation from motorised vehicles.
An unhurried commute in "normal dress", where you can arrive at your destination in acceptable condition to go about your day would be greatly facilitated by dedicated infrastructure where the level of physical exertion could be reduced and you don't need to make yourself so starkly visible.
Posted 12 years ago # -
I try not to be identified too closely with anyone in case any erroneous assumptions of similarity are made. Sometimes even when you've clearly stated what you think it gets wilfully misinterpreted. I felt quite uncomfortable in the only Spokes public meeting I went to years ago, though I'd be interested to try again now that I'm not necessarily any more 'into' cycling but am more aware of the various ancillary related information-exchanging activities. Similarly I was quite glad that we were all coralled at the active travel budget thing so that there was no risk of unfortunate critical-mass-style roadblocking.
Along those lines, I would have said "you don't feel that it would be potentially advantageous in case of collision to dress in a way which would hopefully reduce the validity of the arguments of anyone claiming that they didn't see you" rather than "you don't need to make yourself so starkly visible" just to try and pre-emptively thwart anyone who wanted to jump on it and shout that no-one NEEDS hi-viz it's all a conspiracy by the motor industry ARGFROTH and so on.
Posted 12 years ago # -
Well, true. I don't own any fluoro stuff, so shouldn't have really commented on that. ;)
Posted 12 years ago # -
For instance (controversy alert) I look at the photos from the protest and even I find myself thinking "cyclists [small irrelevant subgroup] wanting special treatment" rather than "normal folk asking for fair treatment" which is what it really should be. To a non-cyclist I suspect this alien gulf is really large.
That's pretty much what the minister said when he kept repeating "I can see there are lot of people here who are passionate about cycling", and "this is a sign of a healthy democracy where people are prepared to speak out for their interest".
Translation: Isn't it wonderful that in this enlightened country we tolerate these lunatics? You are a tiny minority and while I respect your right to complain I'm going to cater to the majority, thanks very much.
Posted 12 years ago # -
Rugtomcat:
as for the argument that this is detrimental to getting people riding, nah, I don't buy itThis. Of the obstacles I found in mind when I was encouraged to cycle, the need to buy cycling gear wasn't one.
Posted 12 years ago # -
But then you're one of the people for whom it wasn't an obstacle, since you do cycle - bit of a truism really :-)
This is one of the reasons why it seems to be such a difficult debate. By definition everybody who currently cycles can honestly say that they aren't a non-cyclist because of weather, hills, clothing, traffic, being looked down on as an underclass, whatever. That doesn't mean though that the 99.9% of the population who are put off cycling weren't put off for one of those reasons?
Posted 12 years ago # -
Nor does it mean that they are. And that's the difficulty of the debate. It rests on a supposition that people can only try to refute from their own limited experience. I suppose I could cite the research evidence - the representative population surveys that try to establish the barriers to cycling and show that never, ever, do people say that what puts them off is the clothes or that they feel intimidated by the lycra or that they're worried about people seeing their varicose veins in their shorts. Never. Mr Copehagenize has made it up. He's looked at Copenhagen and seen that most people cycle in ordinary clothes. He's looked at, say, Edinburgh and seen that fewer people cycle but more of the people who do wear technical clothing. He then jumps to the conclusion that it's the clothes. His eureka moment: that's what makes the difference! He made a lunge, grabbed the wrong end of the stick and flailed with it at the wrong target.
But even if he's right, let's assume that people are put off by cycling clothing, it doesn't then follow that cyclists should feel any obligation to change their clothing, make themselves less comfortable or more vulnerable to suggest to those poor wee lambs that cycling in Edinburgh or Scotland will be just the same if they wear their everyday togs. It won't be. It's not that those of us who wear technical clothing do so to emulate our racing heroes. I learned by soreness and chafing that proper cycling shorts are better over medium and long distances. I learned that wet is cold. I learned that proper shoes that attach to pedals make cycling substantially more efficient.
So, sorry, even if there is a cohort of frustrated wannabe cyclists who can't stomach the idea that they might need to dress differently to travel differently. Err, tough. By all means get on a bike with your ordinary clothes and see how you get on. You might get on fine. I have a very good friend who can cycle all day in a pair of loafers and moleskin trousers (and a t-shirt). Whatever you wear you're going to have to get accustomed to it. But I've made my choices and they include lycra, clip less pedals, bright lights and a hi viz jacket. The only thing that fails my comfort and safety test is the helmet but I'm always willing to reconsider that. Just the same as I'm willing to throw the clothes away when Edinburgh has been transformed into Copenhagen. I mean, Copenhagenise Edinburgh first and I'll think about Copehagenising me.
Posted 12 years ago # -
@Dave
I think the difference is that I understood clothes really well already; I knew how they interacted with me when running or walking over distance, and in different weathers, so I had total confidence that my civvies would suffice.
I didn't have that confidence with aerobic or even anaerobic fitness and certainly not with traffic.
I do concede the point that I'm only here because I already done a fair bit of walking or running over distance and that makes me a rubbish example.
Posted 12 years ago # -
"Translation: Isn't it wonderful that in this enlightened country we tolerate these lunatics? You are a tiny minority and while I respect your right to complain I'm going to cater to the majority, thanks very much."
Meh, this is a damned if you do and damned if you don't situation. If all the people in cycle spec clothes hadn't been there what would we have been left with?
A few students? Well THEY don't pay taxes.
A few casually dressed people? Obviously unemployed otherwise they would be able to afford a car, why should we pay even more to these spongers? And besides, if cycling is so dangerous why aren't they wearing h****ts and hi-viz?We all know that is what the criticisms would be, no matter how unfair.
Frustrating.
Posted 12 years ago # -
Aye, frustration is the word.
Which doesn't scan half as well as Grease being the word, but Olivia Newton John was wearing biblongs at the end of that movie. Wasn't she?
Posted 12 years ago # -
I used to have a thing for ONJ. When I was about 12.
Posted 12 years ago # -
Was it the biblongs? :-)
Posted 12 years ago # -
Edit - not even the smallest version fits, do click for the full effect...
Bikeyface nails it!
http://bikeyface.com/2012/02/03/so-ladies/
Robert
Posted 12 years ago # -
I think this crosses a line for me:
Posted 12 years ago # -
Hahahaha!
(laughing at bikeyface cartoon)
Posted 12 years ago # -
Ha.
Wonder if he reads Bikeyface.Posted 12 years ago # -
Okay I get all the other bits as technical clothing gone bad, but what's with the Duck/Duct tape and the ginger merkin?
Posted 12 years ago # -
"Alberto Blanco is in third place when he experiences Shermer's Neck, which happens when your neck muscles are exhausted from holding your head and helmet at a peculiar angle for a very long time.
His support team used a backpack frame, some straps and coat-hangars, and a lot of Duct Tape to fashion a rig to keep him riding."
http://vannevar.blogspot.com/2012/01/bicycle-dreams-race-across-america-raam.html
Posted 12 years ago # -
Bikeyface is brilliant - and as a cyclist is a healthy combination of "cycle specific" and "cycle citizenic". In fact I think it was her (or lovelybicycle blog) retweeting my original "offending" image that drew it to the attention of the Copenhagenizer
Posted 12 years ago # -
Golly. Still doesn't explain the ginger flash, or were they going for Roman Centurion chic?
They shoot horses... don't they?
Posted 12 years ago # -
Does he have a medic on his team? I think someone should have said to the rider that he ought to withdraw from the ride, for the sake of his health.
Posted 12 years ago # -
I wonder if this is where Bikeyface got her inspiration for that image, since it appears on Cycle Chic.
Is there a way to make it smaller?
Posted 12 years ago # -
Hmm think I know where that photo was taken from. Off to google street view it..
Nah. thought it was Eindhoven, but not where I thought it was.
Posted 12 years ago # -
What do you call a Frenchman in sandals? Philippe Flop.
Not the optimal footwear for cycling in.
Posted 12 years ago #
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