CityCyclingEdinburgh Forum » Sport

Drafting

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  1. Uberuce
    Member

    I thought to myself as I trailed Rugtomcat last night "physically, am I drafting him, and what did I remember hearing about the etiquette?"

    I was keeping a safe braking distance and couldn't detect any difference as I dropped further back.

    So: when you draft, is it completely obvious?

    How naughty is it? We were freewheeling(as such, in my case) so I reckoned it was okay since I wasn't getting him to pay my way.

    Also: what's the preferred means of movement in a group at speed? I was all over the place up the Seat last night, but aside from from Kap's analysis of that chap who handlebar flipped after bursting his spokes, all I know is that overlapping is bad, so try to make it easy for your follower to avoid it.

    Posted 12 years ago #
  2. I'm too much of a wuss to sit an inch from the wheel in front, and when I'm going about the same speed as the person in front prefer to hang back or overtake.

    So I'm not qualified in any way at all. I presume the size of the person in front can contribute as well?

    Posted 12 years ago #
  3. Dave
    Member

    It is very obvious, and unfortunately if you were keeping a safe braking distance you probably weren't getting much benefit!

    If you don't overlap your wheels there's no risk of a sideways swerve taking you out. Similarly, if you ride just a couple of inches to the side, if the person in front slows a bit, say by getting up off the saddle, their wheel won't hit yours when it drops back slightly.

    It's a bit rude to properly draft someone who isn't playing along, since you will crash into them if something goes wrong, but the top of the high road (before the steep descent to the RAB by the pool) is probably a perfect place to learn.

    Posted 12 years ago #
  4. Min
    Member

    You need to be a couple of inches away from the wheel of the person in front. They need to know you are there and to point out potholes they are about to swerve round. it does make a big difference when you do it properly. I guess the size of the front person makes a difference, most people are bigger than me so I have never tried it with a smaller person in front.

    Posted 12 years ago #
  5. steveo
    Member

    When my buddy and I are touring we'll take turns if we're tired or the road is too busy to be side by side, its really noticeable when the person in front starts to freewheel and you start catching up and have to pull out to the side out the draft to slow you down.

    Posted 12 years ago #
  6. Actually, thinking on it there was one audax I rode and there was a 5 mile or so straight, which had a bang-on perfect headwind. A wee train went past me as I struggled along, so I latched on - even without being an inch away it certainly seemed to make a difference. I'd completely forgotten about that - suddenly felt like breezing along when you were 7th or 8th man, and could even afford to freewheel every now and then.

    Posted 12 years ago #
  7. recombodna
    Member

    I got told off for drafting a van the other day by another cyclist who had once "tried it with a bus and crashed into the back of it when it stopped".... God I love it when other cyclists give you riding "advice" it in no way comes across as patronising.

    Posted 12 years ago #
  8. Baldcyclist
    Member

    I'm a bad cyclist, I draft folk all the time, mostly because the person in front wanted so much to be there in the first place.

    One example, sitting at lights at Haymarket and person pulls up beside me on the right. lights go green and he takes off so he can be away in front of me. Not so strange you might say, but this guy has a kiddie trailer bike thing attached to his bike and no way is he going to be cycling as quickly as me on the straight.

    In this instance I just take the view, we'll you wanted so much to be in front to so ok!
    I follow him for the fist quarter mile or so at 20mph, after which he is out of puff so drops to about 8mph, but he so wanted to be in front so I don't overtake. I know my place in the world, it is behind this man, so I let him stay in front at 8mph rather than overtake!

    Think he was quite annoyed by the time he turned off. I love drafting people, especially those that want to be in front anyway.

    I'm a bad cyclist I know!

    Posted 12 years ago #
  9. amir
    Member

    "I'm a bad cyclist,"
    Bald and bad?

    Posted 12 years ago #
  10. crowriver
    Member

    It's an interesting one. Generally I would say that drafting is okay, in certain circumstances. For example, a group ride, with a slow steady climb and a headwind. It just makes sense for riders to shelter behind the stronger climbers. Very little risk of anything going awry and if it does, the speeds are such that there's plenty of time to react. On the flat is okay too, again a headwind is the perfect excuse. Speed can be an issue there so it does need to be a co=operation between the riders, being aware of each other's moves.

    Downhills are a different matter. Personally I would never draft on a downhill section, even a shallow one. Unless it's a race I can't see any justification. It's pretty much unnecessary in normal riding as no effort is saved (unless the downhill is into a roaring gale) and the risks are substantial. It's the cycling equivalent of reckless overtaking on a blind bend: acceptable under race conditions but otherwise not.

    Addendum - just seen baldcyclist's post. I never draft in city traffic, just too unpredictable. You need nerves of steel!

    Posted 12 years ago #
  11. Instography
    Member

    I can understand why people might want to draft a great big windbreak. I draft and am drafted by friends when I'm out with them but, as other's have said, we know we're doing it, we have agreed to it and we share the load.

    Drafting a complete stranger is different and even though it doesn't increase my efforts at all if someone drafts me, I hate them doing it. There's no agreement or acknowledgement. They seem to think that it's OK to catch my wheel as I pass them (I never go in front of someone at lights and never draft) and then sit there having someone else work for them. Certainly when I've either sat up to let them take a turn or indicated that it's their turn, they never do. So, I assume selfish leeches and will happily just stop and make them pass me. Or I'll keep moving across the road to encourage them to stay back and put them in the wind and they soon run out of steam.

    Posted 12 years ago #
  12. Dave
    Member

    On PBP there were times when everybody drafts everything that moves. In fact at one point I was leading about forty roadies at over 25mph (to pay them back for towing me for the last 30 or so kilometers). Great fun.

    But yeah, it's antisocial in town I think, unless everybody playing the game is playing the game. You wouldn't accept a bus driver drafting you (even if you were driving) so why should you have to accept it from a cyclist?

    Having said /that/, I do often tailgate vehicles in town, in the sense that if the vehicle in front of me at any given time was to do an emergency stop, often I wouldn't be able to brake before going into the back of them. I do think about the wisdom of this from time-to-time, but mainly keep doing it because you don't get hassle from the car behind if you are leaving the sort of gap they'd be leaving.

    Posted 12 years ago #
  13. LaidBack
    Member

    Dave I do often tailgate vehicles in town,

    Have to watch potholes too. They suddenly loom up as vehicle straddles them!

    Posted 12 years ago #
  14. wingpig
    Member

    Potholes are the main reason why I leave at least a pothole-bunnyhopping/braking/exhaust-dispersing space between me and whatever's in front of me. If you're in the still air behind a big vehicle then all the crap which takes advantage of the low airspeed to deposit itself on the rear windscreen will also be deposited on you. My usual routes rarely involve opportunities to chase buses for any sustained period though I sometimes get the effect when whimsy takes me out towards Costorphine (or on the way home along London Road for shorter distances) even whilst maintaining a safe separation.

    Posted 12 years ago #
  15. Uberuce
    Member

    @anth: I'd hazard a guess that the clothing and posture of the windbreak matters too.

    Your ideal draft-bait would presumably be a great big rider with dreadlocks, a ZZ Top beard and a floppy coat on a Pashley Roadster, and the worst would be a 10 stone roadie in aero gear and his or her posture tucked right in.

    My geek side would love to get a wind tunnel and see what the combinations do.

    Posted 12 years ago #
  16. There MUST be w wind tunnel somewhere in Edinburgh, with some willing aerodynamics students, that we can obtain for a citycycling test!

    Posted 12 years ago #
  17. crowriver
    Member

    Yeah, there is one. It's called Cramond prom in January!

    Posted 12 years ago #
  18. Arellcat
    Moderator

    Heriot-Watt has a small scale wind tunnel, good for things up to about 12 inches in height or width if I remember right; it's been a while. Not so good for real-world testing of aero positions though.

    Who watched Adam Hart-Davis on Science Shack in 2001? That was when he compared an upright bike with a part-faired recumbent trike and a fully-faired trike. Bob Dixon and Mike Burrows were on hand, and Bob wrote a report of the day on the IHPVA mailing list (quoted via here):

    "Readings were taken across a wind speed range of 20 to 50mph and the drag expressed as Newtons. Here's a sample of the drag:

    Speed / Bicycle / Part -faired trike / Fully faired trike
    20mph      16.0          8.0                  5.3
    30mph      36.0         15.5                  8.3
    40mph      64.0         31.0                 15.7


    It's interesting to note that a part-faired trike (nose cone and rear fairing, plus wing mirror, but no mudguards or wheel fairings) is generating only half the drag of a conventional upright; this figure gets even better as speed is increased.

    Even more impressive is the fully-faired trike which is half the drag of a part-faired trike, therefore a quarter of the drag of a conventional upright bike. The fully faired trike was totally enclosed, with wheel fairings and small side ventilation apertures.

    Tyre rolling resistance doesn`t form any part of these calculations, in theory the bicycle should roll easier than a trike. The bike was a mono-forked mountain bike, and Adam sat on/in each machine for the tests. The part faired trike was [Bob's] own Windcheetah and the fully faired trike was Mike Burrows own Windcheetah racer.

    It's a sobering thought that the drag on Mike's racer at 40mph is still less than the upright at 20mph. The tunnel is an old RAF facility capable of generating 150mph wind forces."

    That wind tunnel may or may not now be part of Manchester University.

    Posted 12 years ago #
  19. cb
    Member

    BikeRadar | Aerodynamics made easy

    Suggests a wind tunnel costs £550 to £899 per hour.

    Posted 12 years ago #

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