How do you get more people to ride bicycles? Something I have been thinking for quite awhile, but I wonder how many here would agree with my latest conclusions?
CityCyclingEdinburgh Forum » Debate!
How do you get more people to ride bicycles
(32 posts)-
Posted 13 years ago #
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Yes and yes. But especially the infrastructure. You need infrastructure which makes riding a bike feel safe and easy, all the way to your destination.
Posted 13 years ago # -
Number 1 makes number 2 more feasible.
And I'm not sure if you saw the thread following kaputnik's public hanging by Mikael for daring to suggest that he rides to work in winter in anything more 'technical' than a ski jacket, but there are plenty cycle chic-ers who most definitely are 'thou shalt not wear lycra unless racing'.
Posted 13 years ago # -
If you look at the infrastructure in The Netherlands it isn't totally separated everywhere but only where traffic volumes are high. There is a hierarchy of separated provision which we could achieve here if we tried. This is something the Cycling Embassy of Great Britain is currently working on.
Posted 13 years ago # -
Perhaps a lot of these bikes in sheds are there as a result of
rhubarb-gullibilityemotional marketing, abandoned to gather dust in sheds when their riders failed to immediately transform into advertisment stereotypes upon grasping the handlebars.Posted 13 years ago # -
I don't know, discovering that driving a car does not actually involve driving very very fast round very narrow, twisty and totally deserted city streets whilst gazing slack-jawed out of a side window doesn't seem to put people off driving..
Posted 13 years ago # -
Good post though Kim but agree with Anth about the anti-lycra thing. And, this most brilliantly awesome cartoon sums up completely why some people find that particular form* of the cycle chic movement disturbing.
*not yours obviously- that does actually show normal people cycling.
Posted 13 years ago # -
Apologies in advance, tin hat adjusted appropriately.
You know what, why? Why should we as
Mormonspeople who cycle tell the rest of the world how to go about their daily business? If folk want to cycle, let them (and yes better infrastructure would help!), if they dont, that's just fine!
I've never met a walker, or runner, who proceeded to tell me that's how I should travel to work, not one, ever. Why, oh why do we (used loosely) continue to do so?We have this notion that it will solve the traffic problem instantly, it won't. Most city dwellers who dont cycle, walk, or get the bus. The traffic is coming into the city from outside, better/faster/cheaper/more reliable public transport is what we really need, people won't need persuading when that is the case. Telling folk who are not causing a problem that you can cycle in 'normal' clothes is pointless! </rant>
Posted 13 years ago # -
I've often thought that I don't really give a monkeys if people cycle or not. But I think the question Kim's addressing is more: there are people who want to cycle but feel prevented from doing so. What changes would make it more likely that they would translate their pent up demand for cycling into actual cycling? He's not really telling people who don't want to cycle that they should.
Posted 13 years ago # -
It's not so much about getting people to cycle as it is reducing urban traffic congestion. You can only to this if you make It impossible for people to drive and park in the city centre. Even Amsterdam used to is congested with cars in the city centre....
Posted 13 years ago # -
There are also a small number of people who criticise the idea of Cycle Chic on supposed “safety” grounds.
Larger than you would imagine...! When Sally came up to cycle on the protest she wore a long coat and cycled in the way most people do on mainland Europe. The biggest risk she took was daring to go into Holyrood Park which is not 'bike friendly'.
At the protest there were many examples of hi-viz and tech clothing.
Todays Times has a safety feature - 'ultimate way to make cycling safer or something'.Think many would prefer to see 20mph limits which would save fuel, brakes on cars and road deaths.
Posted 13 years ago # -
The most common things I get told are "you must be mad cycling" or if the weather is bad "you didn't cycle today did you?" Let's face it sitting in a car with the heater on when it is chucking it down outside and is baltic is preferable in most people's minds. Also driving a car is effortless, you are not expending energy to move, other than depressing the accelerator, and most people don't take exercising seriously enough. I also get told "I would like to cycle but the traffic is awful and scary", and then the person usually goes on to tell me how annoying cyclists are, because they go too slowly, and if out on a group run get in the way, which means that the drivers become impatient and will attempt to overtake you at the first opportunity, which may not be that safe for the cyclist, so in the mind of the driver they are scared too that they may take you out (or at least we hope so). As for lycra clothes etc, if you cycle long distances ordinary clothes are not that comfortable and chafe, which is why cycle specific clothing is made, and as far as I can tell is an excuse used by many....they would not need that type of attire unless they start doing longer journeys. At weekends if I go on rides where I may cover up to 80 miles in a day then I want to be comfortable, when I commute to work on a daily basis I do not bother wearing cycle specific clothing, other than a jacket or waterproofs if necessary. High viz, well it seems to me that many motorists actually think that it is necessary and that some sort of law demands that cyclists wear it, not sure where this notion came from but like helmets many actually think that it is a legal requirement.
Posted 13 years ago # -
On the odd occasion I cycle in non-cycling clothes, I dislike the way my kidneys are exposed to the cold air because the shape of the trousers/jacket is wrong, and that my coat bunches up awkwardly under my arms, and that I have to dig out some clips to hold my trousers away from the chain, and that my gloves don't have padding in the right place to stop my hands going numb. Cycle-specific clothing (not of the lycra sort, I hasten to add) is just much more comfortable, even for short journeys, I find.
Posted 13 years ago # -
@liz When I was a courier through the winter months every secretary I picked up from would say something like " I don't envy you being out on the bike today" Or "You're not riding a bike today are you?" 20 odd times a day 5 days a week.... jeezso!!
Posted 13 years ago # -
On the odd occasion I cycle in non-cycling clothes, I dislike the way my kidneys are exposed to the cold air because the shape of the trousers/jacket is wrong, and that my coat bunches up awkwardly under my arms, and that I have to dig out some clips to hold my trousers away from the chain, and that my gloves don't have padding in the right place to stop my hands going numb.
This only happens if you are riding a drop handlebar bike, or a sporty hybrid/MTB which demand a sporty riding posture. If you are riding a traditional city bike or Dutch/Danish style bike the posture is very upright, there are comfy bar grips and a chaincase. So normal clothes are fine.
High viz, well it seems to me that many motorists actually think that it is necessary and that some sort of law demands that cyclists wear it, not sure where this notion came from but like helmets many actually think that it is a legal requirement.
Well helmets and light coloured clothing are specified in the Highway Code, I do believe. That doesn't mean you have to wear them, it just says 'should' not 'must'. Though it's not surprising folk interpret that as meaning it's illegal not to.
Posted 13 years ago # -
When Sally came up to cycle on the protest she wore a long coat and cycled in the way most people do on mainland Europe. The biggest risk she took was daring to go into Holyrood Park which is not 'bike friendly'.
In fairness I was dressed up for the protest and to do justice to the Paper Bike! I only ever wear that coat on a full chainguard bike (it's my Boris Biking coat as well) because it's too long and likely to get caught up in the spokes and chain. I wanted to show up looking like a 'normal' person for the protest, to show the politicians cycling is not just for a hardcore minority
Back in the real world, I do find I have to wear something reflective at dusk, preferably the dreaded bright yellow. I refuse to wear it out in the back roads of Galloway though. If people can't see me on a bike, how the hell are they going to avoid hitting a deer or a cow?
Posted 13 years ago # -
oops that was supposed to be me quoting laidback in the first paragraph. I don't talk about myself in the third person, honest!
Posted 13 years ago # -
Kim makes the point about infrastructure. Separate cycling lanes where traffic is busy being no.1 thing to increase cycling.
The second issue involves attitudinal shift in Uk drivers which would need legal enforcement whereby motorised transport is forced to give way to bicycles.
I think the cycle chic/copenhagen stuff is actually funded by the motor industry to catch different cycling tribes up in circular debAte. same with helmets. People buy commodities in a fetishistic way for all pass times. Air wear soles in doc martens for walking no better than clogs after first few wears knock out the bounce. Nylon anoraks that are supposed to breathe. Et cetera et cetera. Traffic puts people off not lycra
Posted 13 years ago # -
People buy commodities in a fetishistic way for all pass times.
Well said. Amazing how most people don't even think about it this way. It's as if they've no ability to stand back and consider what they are doing. A bunch of Ids/Egos roaming around unaware of their behaviour!
Posted 13 years ago # -
Shopping is the new religion. Despite tinternet malls of Livingston mobbed. Even stratified by class. Designer mall, middle mall, pound shop mall
Posted 13 years ago # -
There's nothing I like better than a good fetishistic purchase. In lycra if possible.
Posted 13 years ago # -
The fact that more people don't cycle is not the fault of the people who choose to do so.
If most people own a bike and know how to ride it (as argued in the blog post) then I would assume they know that you can cycle in pretty much any clothes you want, because they will have done this.
You could argue that people don't cycle because when they have cycled in regular clothes on clunky old bikes the experience was enough to put them off for good. If they had cycled on a high end bike in cycle specific clothes they would have had a far better experience and may have stuck with it. I don't particularly believe this myself - but it is at least as coherent an argument that people don't cycle because of other people's clothing choices.
I do agree that people don't cycle due to fear of traffic, laziness, weather etc.
Posted 13 years ago # -
I think people are right that the whole 'dressing like Lance Armstrong' thing is unlikely to put people off cycling on its own. What it does do (or did do) is create this feeling that you're not a 'proper' cyclist unless you're doing it with all the kit. The cycle chic thing, love it or loathe it, at least has given people another way to be a cyclist, even if it sets another impossibly high bar that's actually pretty impractical in most UK conditions. I was quite apologetic about my cycling until Copenhagen Cycle Chic came along - there I was pootling about in the wrong clothes, too slowly, sticking to the back roads or getting off and pushing because I didn't fancy taking the lane around a 3-lane roundabout. I'm still in the wrong clothes now, of course, but there are more and different ways for me to be wrong ... plus I've stopped caring what people think about me. Out here in rural SW Scotland I'm the madwoman on a bike, and it doesn't matter what I wear, they'll still think I'm a bit of a nutter. At least I can mitigate some of the weather by cycling in wellies and a wax jacket.
Posted 13 years ago # -
Wax jacket? Quite technical compared to tweed? JOKING
Posted 13 years ago # -
Prohibit cycling...then there will be hundreds wanting to, just to be contrary, different, be seen to be daring, anarchistic, law breakers...just kidding. Some motorists probably think all the above already applies.
For some past times it is sensible to wear appropriate clothing, for instance mountaineering, rock climbing, skiing, even going to the gym, running, swimming, well most sports, I think, so why not cycling whether as a tourer, leisure cyclist, racer.
Not being able to see cyclists as we all know is a common complaint either because they are wearing dark clothing or not enough lights, and wearing high viz does still not preclude a motorist saying that they did not see you, the reason they don't see cyclists is because they just do not compute you being there, you are not in the equation in their mind. It is recommended that you wear light clothes so that you do not blend in with the road, or that you shine out at night in the glare of headlights, and is recommended for your own safety or perhaps in the event of anything untoward happening to you that SMIDSY is not really a feasible excuse.
Posted 13 years ago # -
Cycling chic didn't give people another way of being a cyclist. What is now called cycling chic has been around for as long as bicycles. Actually, dressing in everyday clothes predates bicycles. Cycling gave people another way to wear their own clothes.
Posted 13 years ago # -
yeah, you're right, I suppose I meant another way to be a 'cyclist' as opposed to just someone who gets around on a bike. Whatever that means! Too much deep thought for a sunday morning.
Posted 13 years ago # -
What got me riding was:
1) My friend Kerri. She bikes and encouraged me to do so.
B) I'd just had both my knees give out quite dramatically, which put an end to my weightlifting hobby. I needed something else to keep fit.
Fourth) My sister's road bike had been hanging up in my flat for years, unridden. I say hanging up because it's literally true - the previous owner was a mad keen cyclist and had built a rack in the box room to store his half dozen bikes. I didn't know anything about bikes at the time, but I'm pretty confident I'd drool over them now.
A) My route to morning job can be done along the Union Canal and then on the Broomhouse path, and my route to afternoon job is on quiet back streets. I no longer use the canal route since it's about a third longer, but I doubt that I've started if it wasn't for that easy ride.I'm pretty confident that A is the biggest factor.
Posted 13 years ago # -
Uberuce, I like your crazy mindmapping posting technique :-)
Posted 13 years ago # -
*bows*
Although, now that I think about it, I reckon the fact I had a bike in riding order sitting right in my flat was a necessary step.
Which pretty much means the way get people riding bikes is give them one, for free.
Posted 13 years ago #
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