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Astley Ainslie access

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  1. cb
    Member

    According to the latest Meadows and Morningside Green News the NHS wish to discourage people from using the AA as a walking/cycling route.

    See page 2 here:

    http://www.edinburghgreens.org.uk/site/wp-content/files/MM-Spring-2012-web-version.pdf

    The two vehicle gates off South Oswald road have been closed for some months although you can still get through a pedestrian gate.

    You can email Melanie.main@scottishgreens.org.uk if you want to comment on this.

    Interesting observation: we've walked through the AA frequently over the last five years and I've seen few cyclists in that time. I've never seen any cyclists using the Cluny Drive access until the last two days when I've seen five bikes heading that way. Is this a coincidence?

    Posted 12 years ago #
  2. Nelly
    Member

    I used the canaan lane to whitehouse terr gates recently. Not sure how they can 'discourage' any mode of traffic at all, as there are private businesses (nusery for example) in the grounds.

    Posted 12 years ago #
  3. chdot
    Admin

    Astley Ainslie is a magical place - calm and full of mature trees, interesting buildings and lots of wildlife.

    There's no doubt that the long term aim is to sell off as much as possible. (Bits round the edge have already been sold for private houses.) It will no doubt be 'worth' more if there is no right of public access.

    There are similar issues at Craighouse.

    Not sure what this means -

    "Now the NHS wishes to discourage people from using the site and has permanently closed the east gate at British Heart Foundation Lane."

    Is that the vehicle access at the end of South Oswald Road (theres's still ped/cycle access nearby) or the 'secret' door in the wall which is definitely shut?

    http://www.everytrail.com/view_trip.php?trip_id=1447930

    Posted 12 years ago #
  4. Dave
    Member

    Perhaps since the site is owned by a public body, funded by the people it wishes to discourage in this case, they should simply alter the policy?

    Of course, the NHS discouraging cycle journeys is certainly a "this is Edinburgh" moment we can savour...

    Posted 12 years ago #
  5. cb
    Member

    "Is that the vehicle access at the end of South Oswald Road"

    There are two vehicle gates off South Oswald Road. Both are closed and have been for some months.

    The 'secret' door was nailed shut well over a year ago. There had been a bit of dumping going on (old mattress, TV, etc) just prior to that happening.

    I despair at the continual building of new flats on bits of green space or wild corners of the city. Heard a rumour today that the field west of Maybury Road (I.e. green belt) is primed for new houses.

    (sorry about typo in thread title - predictive text, natch)

    Posted 12 years ago #
  6. cb
    Member

    Health chiefs lay Astley Ainslie Hospital ward closure fears to rest

    Ward closures fears may have been put to rest, but not so sure about the general selling off of the green growy bits.

    Posted 11 years ago #
  7. chdot
    Admin

    "

    Sue Tritton, of Grange and Prestonfield community council, said: “We wish to establish who uses the route with a view to possibly establishing rights of way in the long term.”

    Green councillor Melanie Main said: “We must protect these spaces for the contribution they make to the health and wellbeing of the community.”

    George Curley, acting director of facilities at NHS Lothian, said: “We would not support routes through the site becoming public rights of way. This is a working hospital site.”

    "

    Unless the NHS has special dispensation, routes through the hospital will already have been Rights of Way - even before the Access Legislation(?)

    Posted 11 years ago #
  8. Morningsider
    Member

    I'm afraid rights of way law is too arcane, even for me. Scotways should be able to tell anyone keen on this issue whether the route is a right of way - but you have to contact them directly as they don't have this sort of thing online. The fab new Council Atlas highlights at least one route through the Astlie Ainslie as a local path.

    Posted 11 years ago #
  9. Kirst
    Member

    I went through the South Oswald Road gate twice last week (once going in, once coming out again).

    It's Astley Ainslie, not Ashley Ainslie.

    Posted 11 years ago #
  10. chdot
    Admin

    "It's Astley Ainslie, not Ashley Ainslie"

    It's the way you shay it...

    Posted 11 years ago #
  11. Kirst
    Member

    Sloppy diction leads to sloppy spelling, as everyone who writes "I would of" can confirm. ;-)

    Posted 11 years ago #
  12. chdot
    Admin

    "I went through the South Oswald Road gate twice"

    For those who don't know, when the gate is shut there is a path - hole in wall on right going in, path left of gate going out.

    Useful, quiet, Morningside - Newington route.

    Posted 11 years ago #
  13. SRD
    Moderator

    About 5 months ago, the thread originator posted "(sorry about typo in thread title - predictive text, natch)"

    Posted 11 years ago #
  14. chdot
    Admin

    Bit surprised there has been nothing on this thread for 3 years - and can't find a newer one.

    Substantial update (from Councillor Steve Burgess) -

    "

    At the Local Access Forum meeting in April, two local Councillors (on behalf of other local councillors) representing local residents, and formally supported by Grange/Prestonfield, Marchmont/Sciennes and Morningside Community Councils, and the Grange Association, made a case for the creation of Rights of Way (RoW) through the Astley Ainslie Hospital (AAH) site. The Forum agreed to seek further information and we understand you are meeting today consider the issue again.

    Since local Councillors have been advised we may not be allowed to address the Forum on this issue again today, we would like to make the following brief points in support of Rights of Way through the AAH site:

    A. Scotways report on the evidence strongly supports the creation of RoW and concludes by stating:
    ‘All the routes assessed meet the first three criteria of public place, defined route and without permission....
    From previous experience Scotways considers the numbers using the first five route variations based on Entrances 1,3,4,5, adequate to meet the necessary criteria for rights of way.’

    B. In the report by Council Access Officers, five Conclusions have been drawn and Local Councillors provide balancing responses to each of these below;

    Report conclusion 1. ‘It is our understanding that NHS Lothian has not given any commitment regarding a date to relocate the hospital facilities from the AAH site, therefore the current position of unrestricted access through the site could remain unchanged for the foreseeable future.’

    Local Councillor’s response:
    Whilst the NHS are keeping the exact date for decanting from the AAH site private, they recently informed Community Councillors at a meeting in August that they intend to decant to the Royal Edinburgh sell the AAH site ‘around 2019’ i.e. in four years time
    Scotways report states: ‘With its pending sale by the NHS within a few years, there is huge concern about its future development. ’

    Report Conclusion 2. ‘The Access Steering Group, an Officers’ working group which guides the work of the Local Access Forum (LAF), discussed the issue of access through the AAH site on two occasions: March 2014 and April 2015. On both occasions it was felt that the five cycle/footpath safeguards present in the second Proposed Local Development Plan are sufficient to ensure that future development in its layout will provide routes through the site.’

    Local Councillor’s response:
    Although the cycle/footpath safeguards present in the second Proposed Local Development Plan intend some protection, experience has shown that the planning committee have often set aside such planning guidance when approving development. However, RoW could not be set aside by planning officers or the planning committee in this way.
    Scotways report states: ‘However, such protection [in the LDP] may be subject to amendment, and a higher level of protection has been desired by having all the relevant routes described in the LDP declared legally recorded rights of way.’

    Report conclusion 3. ‘Local authorities have the power to establish the legal status of a right of way through court proceedings. However, if this were contested by the landowner the case could take years to resolve, with significant cost and staff time involved. Informal discussions with Legal Services have suggested costs may be in the region of £10,000 - £20,000 if the assertion of routes were contested by the landowner.’

    Local Councillor’s response:
    There is no reason to think the NHS would contest the establishment of RoW in court. The NHS are already allowing free access across the site so establishing RoW would not affect their current operations.
    Also the landowner is unlikely to risk challenging the creation of RoW in court as the evidence for RoW is strong as almost 300 local residents have signed individual forms to say they use routes through the site many going back over 20 years.
    Scotways report states: ‘Whilst a set of over 280 questionnaires would generally be very adequate to assess rights of way, it must be remembered that this is likely to be only a small sample of regular users here. The Grange Association survey shows just how many may use the site on a daily basis.’

    Report Conclusion 4. ‘The NHS Lothian position on Public Rights of Way on the AAH site is unclear. Following the April 2015 meeting of the LAF, the Conveners of the Transport and Environment and Health Social Care and Housing Committees undertook to meet with NHS Lothian and to report to the October 2015 meeting of the LAF.’

    Local Councillor’s response: We understand that Cllr. Lesley Hinds, the Convenor of the Access Forum recently met with the NHS. Whilst it may be the case that the NHS is not enthusiastic about creation of RoW because of a perception that this may affect land values, this is only a perception and needs to be balanced with the need for local people to have continued passage through the AAH site after disposal by the NHS.

    Report Conclusion 5. Public Rights of Way, if established, would not necessarily prevent development of the site. They would however require a formal process to be followed which would ensure satisfactory provision is made for their replacement.

    Local Councillor’s response: We agree with this statement that establishment of RoW would not hinder the future re-development of the AAH site but only require development to maintain some sort of RoW.

    "

    Posted 8 years ago #
  15. chdot
    Admin

    "

    Astley Ainslie asserted rights of way granted.

    "

    http://www.edinburghgreens.org.uk/site/local-teams/mm/

    Posted 7 years ago #
  16. gembo
    Member

    This is a good thing. Once the developers move in though you need to reinforce this right of way as they can be very forgetful. The route from Currie down to the water of leith then up to WoL path through the old kinleith mill site has been secured due to the vigilance of the community council.

    Posted 7 years ago #
  17. chdot
    Admin

  18. chdot
    Admin

  19. chdot
    Admin


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