That's us apparently! Just been quoted on the EEN comments.
Hi Za naszą wolność i waszą !
CityCyclingEdinburgh Forum » General Edinburgh
Self-Congratulatory and Smug
(36 posts)-
Posted 12 years ago #
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Don't worry about it, the EEN is mainly replied to by a couple of guys with alter-egos and a big chip on their shoulder.
The level of phobia they have about cyclists amuses me - imagine if they were commenting a hundred years ago on universal sufferage or the abolition of slavery. Just the same sort of small man twaddle.
Posted 12 years ago # -
Yep. Having read me on here I'm now apparently bigoted and immature...
Posted 12 years ago # -
I only congratulate myself because no-one else does. *plays whisky and drinks a violin*
Posted 12 years ago # -
If the EEN sticks to pro cycling direction we are likely to be even more self congratulatory and smug. Anyone know what the polish quote says before we replicate it? I have a favourite line from tinker tailor but that is in Russian with English subtitles
Posted 12 years ago # -
Yeah, I stuck it into Google translate - can't remember what it was, but something fairly benign. A quote of some sort I presume.
Posted 12 years ago # -
Niebiosa, tam są naprawdę nie-skrzydłowe ludzie tam.
Posted 12 years ago # -
Is there something wrong with being self-congratulatory and smug now?
If you can't be legitimately self-congratulatory and smug about the miles you've ridden, the weight lost, the money saved and the extra life years gained what can you be smug about?
Posted 12 years ago # -
@wingpig - "Heavens, there are really no-wing people out there."
I suspect Google may have failed me here...
However Google thinks the commentator is called "For our freedom and yours".
Robert
Posted 12 years ago # -
"what can you be smug about?"
I think you're supposed to be smug about having a better car than your neighbour/colleague and the fact that you can get to the next traffic jam faster than that poor person on a bicycle.
Posted 12 years ago # -
Cars are easy. Sign a form and you can have any car you like. There's nothing to feel smug about. Bikes take work.
Posted 12 years ago # -
@wingpig - is that a polish quote about Sean Connery? (aka Big Tamski)
Posted 12 years ago # -
They evidently don't have hinges (or at least any need to ever describe them) in Polish, unless I mis-typed.
Posted 12 years ago # -
I was reading the other day about how the easy availability of credit might be reversing the pecking order.
Since anyone can own a nice car, *not* owning one is making a serious statement (which, I suspect in large part, is one of the drivers of cyclist hatred).
It's daft anyway. Commuting to my last job by bike saved me so much in fuel and maintenance on the car we did own that I could have had a brand new leased Audi for free. (Don't worry - I spent the money helping to downpay the mortgage instead).
That realisation is bound to cause serious resentment as it percolates through society.
Posted 12 years ago # -
No, I think there really are very few drivers who think like that, that are envious of cyclists. Most profess to feel sorry for us, to look down on us, to presume that we are poor, deranged, aliens or at best eccentric.
Either that, or the other stereotype is we're being deliberately obtuse or pretentious, you know, like those tree-hugging, tofu-knitting, green hippies. Living on mummy and daddy's trust fund and hailing from Steiner school. We should all be living in the Stockbridge colonies and running vegan wholefood cafes.
Of course, these attempts to pigeonhole cyclists may indeed be a symptom of cognitive dissonance, and a simmering subconscious resentment. This is rarely expressed openly as jealousy, as this would mean losing face. Most people would not admit that they might be wrong, especially about personal lifestyle choices. Instead, a common response is to scoff, dismiss, point and stare, laugh, etc. So much easier than questioning one's own belief system, and that of one's friends, neighbours, colleagues...
Posted 12 years ago # -
"No, I think there really are very few drivers who think like that, that are envious of cyclists. Most profess to feel sorry for us, to look down on us, to presume that we are poor, deranged, aliens or at best eccentric. "
I don't think that could explain the vitriol and hatred though. Police indifference, laughable sentences from magistrates, stupid infrastructure - that sort of thing is the product of looking down on cyclists as an underclass.
But there are lots of groups of people I pity and look down on (to avoid possible offence, I won't be specific) but I don't *hate* them, or try to harm them. I wonder if it's just a combination of jealousy and fear of losing group status ("I don't want to cycle. What if everybody cycles and I become abnormal")
Posted 12 years ago # -
I don't think that could explain the vitriol and hatred though.
Why not? If you believe another person or group of people is inferior in some way, it's quite common behaviour to be abusive towards that individual, or group. That behaviour doesn't magically end when we leave the school playground, it just takes different forms.
I wonder if it's just a combination of jealousy and fear of losing group status ("I don't want to cycle. What if everybody cycles and I become abnormal")
That last fear is a long way off! No, I think it is just fear of difference, and the public display of lifestyles, attitudes and choices which are diametrically opposed to the person beholding them. If a cyclist shoves their 'difference' in the face of an average driver (eg. by 'getting in the way') the response is anger and justification of that anger through pointing to the difference and out group status of the transgressor ('bloody cyclists').
Posted 12 years ago # -
I ponder: perhaps it's a disappointment thing?
Motorists are sold the idea of speed and convenience justifying the expense and legal hoop-jumping of a car, so when they see a mode of transport which is faster, handier, and less restricted, they've got the option of admitting they got it wrong and getting a bike, or taking a huff at the people who got it right.
Edinburgh's roadplan and is such a historical accident that it magnifies this effect, as does the small size of the place - I wonder if motorists in cities where size and layout mean they really are faster and more convenient get so grumpy.
Posted 12 years ago # -
"I wonder if motorists in cities where size and layout mean they really are faster and more convenient get so grumpy."
I don't know if such a city exists. Any that revolve entirely around car use just become so congested that they are no longer convenient. Maybe they were for the short time between the planners attempted enforcement of car use and people taking the bait and driving everywhere.
Posted 12 years ago # -
Surely the increasing comfort of cars (insulation from exterior noise, heated seats, cooling air-wafters, hand-crafted rev counter dials etc) applies whether they're being propelled at their design maxima or shuffling slowly towards a distant junction? Do people who buy cars based on the amount of internal frippery on offer do so with a nod towards it making their time spent in jams more tolerable?
Whoosh-factor and denial thereof undoubtedly having some effect somewhere, hence the 'need' to achieve it wherever possible, even if it's just through a momentary acceleration round a cyclist to reach a queue half a second earlier.
I've not driven in many offical New Towns, which I presume try to do things like have bypasses pre-built into them. East Kilbride seems to consist entirely of roundabouts. The bits of Glenrothes I can remember seemed to be all roundabout with sculptures on. I've not seen much of Livingston apart from some of the snowflaked residential warrens and the odd bit of long straight road.
Posted 12 years ago # -
@Instography, it may be worth reading that report. The PDF is a free download but you must register first.
In summary, the report concludes that drivers:
1. Hardly ever consider cyclists, being more concerned about other motor vehicles.
2. When they do consider cyclists, tend to have a low opinion of them and see cyclists as unpredictable (this is true even when the driver is also a cyclist).
3. Tend to overestimate their own competence and consideration for others, and overlook transgressions by other drivers due to their 'in group' status.
4. Tend to attribute poor or incompetent behaviour by some cyclists as being a characteristic of all cyclists due to their 'out group' status.
5. Experience conflict between the way they ideally ought to behave towards cyclists (give enough space, wait until safe to pass, etc.) and the obligations they feel towards other drivers not to hold them up, leading to the 'average' driver passing when it is not safe.
5. Tend to feel resentment that cyclists' perceived unpredictable behaviour forces them to drive more slowly and cautiously. They see this as due to the cyclists' discourtesy (regardless of the actual behaviour of the cyclist in question).There's more, but I recommend reading the report for the detail.
Posted 12 years ago # -
The only example I can think of would be Australia - the cities and towns there are heyoooge for the population, if my sketchy geography is correct.
Posted 12 years ago # -
Thats true, Christchurch (NZ) has the same (nominal) population as Edinburgh (UK) howerver its about 50% bigger and has about half the population density. 150 sq miles to 100 sq miles.
Though the traffic at peak times is still a bloody nightmare, never tried to cycle in it though.
Posted 12 years ago # -
And yet I believe the Aussies and Kiwis have an even more hysterical hatred of cyclists than us Pommies.
Posted 12 years ago # -
*watches his theory go on fire then sink*
Ah well.
Posted 12 years ago # -
Maybe I wasn't brief enough back there. I think that motorists resent cyclists because:
- cyclists are 'in the way' which is bad manners
- cyclists are not driving motor vehicles, therefore differentThat's basically it in a nutshell.
All the rest, the stereotyping, etc. is just there to justify the resentment that is already there.
If you wanted to sum up the attitude, it would be something like:
"You are not one of us! Get out of the way!"
Posted 12 years ago # -
Min
"And yet I believe the Aussies and Kiwis have an even more hysterical hatred of cyclists than us Pommies."
They must almost implode when faced with a Pom Cyclist then ;-)
Posted 12 years ago # -
Have you tried it Nelly? An "I'm a bike riding Pom T-shirt perhaps? ;-)
"*watches his theory go on fire then sink*"
Haha. It sounded good but for some reason it doesn't work, as far as I am aware. Have never cycled in either but tales from down under seem to suggest drivers are particularly psychotic.
Posted 12 years ago # -
"Yep. Having read me on here I'm now apparently bigoted and immature..."
You're also an internet bully.... allegedly ;-)
Posted 12 years ago #
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