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Peter Matthews (@urbaneprofessor)
3/16/12 8:34 AM
Three cyclists just kicked off my @ScotRail against their own policies because it's "too full" #Scotfail
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Anyone on here??
CityCyclingEdinburgh Forum » Cycling News
'Three cyclists just kicked off ScotRail train'
(28 posts)-
Posted 13 years ago #
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oh,thats not good
totally mess up someones dayPosted 13 years ago # -
Hmm that is not good. I've seen bikes not allowed on because the train is too full (normally because of a planning failure resulting in an inadequate number of coaches!) But I've not seen people kicked off :-(
Posted 13 years ago # -
It does depend where they are - I could understand if a bike in a vestibule which was ok at first eventually started to cause a safety risk. One would hope that they weren't removed from the designated bike spots in order to pack in more passengers...
Posted 13 years ago # -
"Too full" of bicycles or people?
Not me, I did the whole thing today. This is why I have a Brompton anyway. <smug>The trouble is, you get some train staff who are total jobsworths and do the "it says 2 bikes so we're taking 2 bikes" thing, and others who are much more pragmatic. I do accept that you can't have a passage or the access to the toilet blocked by bikes, and that a wheelchair user should take priority over bikes. I've also heard (Nth hand, so I'm not sure of the accuracy) of a train that was delayed because 6 cyclists had turned up for a 2-bike-space train all 6 with correct reservations for that train.
Posted 13 years ago # -
We're both heading off on the train tonight (4:30 to Glasgow) so I hope we don't have the same trouble, as they've got to connect us with an onward service, but the bike reservations are only from Glasgow on...
Posted 13 years ago # -
Dave, if at all possible I would try to get there early enough to have a train spare. They're every 15 minutes, and are always pretty packed around rush hour.
Posted 13 years ago # -
Can you get to Waverley in time for the 4:15?
If that's full (of bikes) you'll (probably) be first in queue for 4:30
Posted 13 years ago # -
For train travel between Edinburgh and Glasgow, it's possibly worth bearing in mind that there are now four routes you can take. If you can't get a bike on the fastest service via Falkirk then there are slower trains via Carstairs, Shotts and Bathgate that are possibilities. Obviously, this isn't ideal if you are time-pressed and the slower of the two Shotts services is very slow.
Posted 13 years ago # -
"it's possibly worth bearing in mind that there are now four routes you can take"
Indeed
And if you want to go to Central - or nearby rather than around Queen Street it can be as quick on a small number trains and sometimes cheaper.
A couple of random trains via ScotRail app. EDB-GLQ has 'peak' fares at this time.
The cheap fare is CrossCountry (only) and presume you have to book a bike space.
Posted 13 years ago # -
Can confirm CrossCountry are hugely unlikely to let you on without a booking. Which is also a good thing if you actually have a booking. You can also just about get a lowracer in their verticle bike hangers by using the strap to pull the rear wheel in...
Posted 13 years ago # -
Can make it in good time for 4:30 but not for 4:15. Will just have to stick our cycle reservation stickers on, even though not relevant for that leg, and blag it.
Posted 13 years ago # -
"Will just have to stick our cycle reservation stickers on"
Would hope that would be enough to persuade other bike owners to wait for next train - of necessary - (though think 4:30 is last 'cheap' one?).
Ought to be enough to stop ScotRail not letting your bikes on!
Posted 13 years ago # -
This is why folding bikes are handy.
Posted 13 years ago # -
I won't say "even for touring on the west coast?" because I *know*, without asking, that lots of Brompton users will do this :D
Posted 13 years ago # -
Brompton* other makes of quality folding bike are of course available ;-) joking aside you'll probably be ok tonight, many of the regular commuters will get an early out so the rush isn't quite as bad. As others have said, get to Waverly early and you'll be fine, if you're going to Haymarket I'd recommend waiting just at the end of the canopy and watch the (first 2 or 3) bike cars as they go past to identify if they are empty just in case the one stopping next to you is full ;-)
Posted 13 years ago # -
There are folding bikes designed for touring.
Bike Friday New World Tourist is the best known:
http://www.bikefriday.com/bicycles/touring/There's also the Dahon Speed TR:
http://www.dahon.com/bikes/2011/speed-trI understand Raleigh Twenties have been customised for touring too:
http://forum.ctc.org.uk/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=40260&start=15Posted 13 years ago # -
I nearly got caught yesterday with this.
The main Edinburgh to Glasgow commuter train had different rolling stock on (and not the random SPT 3 carriage element that sometimes appears). It was not the 3+3 with 4 bike areas, it was a 3+3 with only 1 bike area at the far end of one carriage (not the normal 1/3, 2/3 position).
Don't know if anyone noticed if it was still on today?
Posted 13 years ago # -
That set turns up from time to time on the E2G route.
I guess it's used to fill in for breakdowns and servicing.Random provision level is a serious hazard to regular commuting on Scotrail but the guards are getting more helpful and flexible and that certainly helps.
Formally re-marking the racks as having a capacity of 3 (and fitting an extra strap, if necessary) would be help reduce the need to rely on a co-operative guard too.
Posted 13 years ago # -
I and two friends were kicked off a Scotrail train at Polmont - we wanted to go to Falkirk (I bet nobody's ever said that before). We were kicked off because our bikes were taking up space some woman wanted to put her baby buggy in, and apparently using the buggy spaces in the other carriages wasn't acceptable, and neither was folding the buggy up. We were Not Happy.
Posted 13 years ago # -
@kirst if there was buggy space in other carriage you should write to them. They will give you a five pound voucher to spend on their trains.
Polmont to Falkirk not too far maybe..? Good off licence at brightons. Falkirk has wheel as destination and big tunnel twist polmont and Falkirk is good
Posted 13 years ago # -
Cross Country Policy is that they honour booked spaces but only book 2 of the 3(6 on HST) and will accommodate non booked if space allows - seen 6-7 bikes on morning commuter trains SHF-LDS all happily stowed under the luggage shelf & in bike spaces.
Scotrail has no peak hour ban on bikes, and their ROGS safety case (which they write) allows for a bike in door vestibules on opposite side to platforms. PRM legislation is screwed/skewed and leads to big mess about the 'official' spaces for wheelchair users - should be 2 on 3+ coach trains.
Best trains for EDB-GLQ/GLC are via Bathgate, I missed xx.30 and got xx.37 and got to GLQ same time as if I'd used xx.45. xx.37 is 'fast' for Milngavie misses whole chunk of stops, and almost empty between Bathgate & Airdrie (as were the buses before the railway reopened) These are Class 334 Junipers (Alsthom), and have huge wheelchair and flexible areas in middle carriage (pan end). Actually can be faster for getting to Helensburgh and Milngavie, as you don't need to go downstairs to change trains.
If you have an incident like this or are travelling with a group at weekends I'm interested in knowing how many bikes/how many passengers total. One Croydon group were 69% of passengers on a Sunday morning service. 10% seems a pretty common figure for off-peak services. I would like to 'prove' this from user reports and photos.
i've a good picture of a well loaded Class 158 at Lenzie. (how does one upload files here?)
Very critical is when train crew refuse young BMX riders as huge demand for taking bikes to Dumbarton East by train for Unit 23 (linked with Trangression Extreme on Peffermill Road). Some kids have been stranded totally or for several hours - not clever for under 16's.
Posted 13 years ago # -
PS the XC advance purchase fare GLC-EDB can be as low a £2 single, and additionally the zoning of fares used to have same fare applied to inner Blue Train stations - to Partick, but you still have to get ticket to say Partick rather than GLQ
Posted 13 years ago # -
Kirst, were your bikes in the bike spaces? I definitely think you should complain. Only possible weak point being that it was 3 bikes? But what good would it have done to kick one off and leave the other two?
Almost everytime we've taken bikes on scotrail, there've been buggies in the way (including when we had reservations), and I've just asked whereover to move/fold it. Or left bike in vestibule. Guards have been okay/helped with that. (My moral position on this may have been strengthened in so far as I was also travelling with child, but technically this should not make a diff).
Posted 13 years ago # -
FWIW it was easy, although I definitely wouldn't attempt it at Haymarket. The only fly in the whole round trip ointment was the guard on the return leg from Connel who held the carriage door shut when I was trying to turn my bike around (the racks, stupidly, require you to board tail-first or do a million point turn when you obviously go in nose first).
When I gave up and hung it from the front wheel, he waited until I'd finished strapping it down to insist that I turn it around, otherwise the handlebars could decapitate children. I did so while pointing out that the hazard had merely been transferred from kids of around 5 feet to kids around 4 feet, but tried not to be too ill-humoured since it can't be easy having such an awful job.
I'm not sure I'd recommend it, it was marginally cheaper than driving because we got a good advance deal and one of us has a young person's railcard, but the added time, hassle and staff sadly makes it a wash.
Posted 13 years ago # -
Tulyar: "i've a good picture of a well loaded Class 158 at Lenzie. (how does one upload files here?)"
You have to host the images somewhere else (e.g. Flickr, Photobucket, etc) and then link to them from here.
Posted 13 years ago # -
Personally I like the Turbostar trains: easy to wheel your bike on and off. The new electric ones on the Bathgate line are great too, but no way to secure your bike to stop it falling over, so you have to stretch a foot out to stop wheel rolling or similar.
Encountered a style of rolling stock new to me on the Fife circle yesterday. Six cycle bays in one separate compartment of the end carriage, which is great except you have to hang them up by the wheel, which is a pain. We boarded at Waverley so thankfully enough time to sort it all out, but had to be prepared well in advance of alighting at intermediate station due to faffiness of exiting train: wouldn't fancy it much the other way around.
Have to say that Scotrail guards are usually pretty helpful. Taking a non-foldong bike on a train always seems to be a bit of a gamble though...
Posted 13 years ago # -
The new electric ones on the Bathgate line are great too, but no way to secure your bike to stop it falling over, so you have to stretch a foot out to stop wheel rolling or similar.
A lot of the regulars seem to use their h*lm*ts for this - an alternative might be to bring along a bungee cord to hold the bike in place - only useful if you know in advance what you're getting, of course.I agree about Scotrail guards being tolerant in general - that is what makes the odd jobsworth even more annoying!
Posted 13 years ago #
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