CityCyclingEdinburgh Forum » Infrastructure

I'll believe Edinburgh is a 'cycling city' when it deals with this

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  1. chdot
    Admin

    PROPERLY!

    Posted 12 years ago #
  2. ARobComp
    Member

    YES I cycled that yesterday and was so confused ended up going across on the green man as I couldnt see another way to do it!

    Posted 12 years ago #
  3. steveo
    Member

    What is going on there?

    Posted 12 years ago #
  4. spudgt2
    Member

    Yeah that's a strange junction! I usually use the tunnel underneath but I'm usually heading North on the cycle path

    Posted 12 years ago #
  5. kaputnik
    Moderator

    For those not familiar with this bit - they've put in a cyclists' salmon run here to get down the one way road against traffic. And it dumps you out on this busy, confusing junction with no way for you to proceed but get off the bike and walk it across - you cant even carry on along the road in any direction as there's no lights to do this or phasing to nip in.

    It's so utterly pointless but has cost a decent amount of money to put the salmon run in.

    Posted 12 years ago #
  6. Claggy Cog
    Member

    It is actually very frightening this junction, so poor is it, that you cannot see the lights and what they are doing and cars seem to come from all directions. Very odd. I have come close to being run over on a couple of occasions. I tend to do what the sign says simply because it is too dangerous to do otherwise.

    Posted 12 years ago #
  7. chdot
    Admin

    Of course the answer is 'simple'.

    Put in an 'extra' traffic light phase.

    As kaputnik says above, a bit of money was spent creating this 'lane to nowhere'.

    Of course this was at a time when it was unacceptable to 'offend' motorists and difficult to design 'different' infrastructure.

    It's all changed now(?)

    I presume this used to be a normal 2-directional, 4-way, junction - presumably with a normal light sequence (possibly without the pedestrian phase).

    Of course to have introduced a cycle only phase would have decreased the time available for drivers. But there should be no room for that excuse now - CEC wants to encourage/favour pedestrians and cyclists.

    The bike phase would only be activated if there was a bike detected. Ideally the the detection would be sufficiently advanced so that there was a chance that the lights were green by the time the rider reached them.

    The detector could be linked to the control box by radio (rather than cable). This experimental innovation might even be enough to get a grant from Transport Scotland!

    Not that CEC is short of 'cycle money' having just agreed to spend 5% a year. It already gets companies like Halcrow to do the design work for things like this, so 'staffing' shouldn't be an excuse either!

    Posted 12 years ago #
  8. freewhwheelin
    Member

    Man in photo in danger of losing his fingers, methinks :)

    Posted 12 years ago #
  9. steveo
    Member

    I don't think I've been down that way before, having seen this I don't think i will!

    Posted 11 years ago #
  10. chdot
    Admin

    "I usually use the tunnel underneath but I'm usually heading North on the cycle path"

    I was going from Stockbridge to Rodney Street yesterday (photographing bike shops!)

    But I didn't notice any signs for the tunnel. I know it's there/open, but I bet a lot of people still don't.

    That 'cyclists dismount' junction has been like that for about 20 years.

    "having seen this I don't think i will!"

    Many people avoid that route because of the state of the setts in Eyre Place.

    Posted 11 years ago #
  11. thebikechain
    Member

    Aye this sad state is next to us. Embarassing really. I ride on it almost daily and still shit myself when i approach the junction. The cars are usually baring at you in the red zone as there is invariably some stupid parking on the other side.

    Posted 11 years ago #
  12. Claggy Cog
    Member

    To get to the Rodney Street tunnel you need to go down Scotland St/Royal Crescent/Summerbank and go through the George V park and it is to the right. Alternatively go on the Warriston path running next to Tesco, across from this junction and it is to the left. The second url is from the Tesco carpark

    http://g.co/maps/sd5yv
    http://g.co/maps/z524z

    Posted 11 years ago #
  13. chdot
    Admin

    Or http://edinburgh.cyclestreets.net/journey/1864273

    Video From Scotland street

    Councillor Gordon Mackenzie speaks at official opening

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    Posted 11 years ago #
  14. Claggy Cog
    Member

    Turn right into Logan Street then off Eyre Place before the debacle that is the contraflow bike lane...

    http://g.co/maps/u4n6j

    Posted 11 years ago #
  15. Bhachgen
    Member

    I used to use this several times a week. I think the council's intention is that you jump off and wait for the green man, before walking across. If you use it often enough to know the light sequence then it's possible to wait for the north/south traffic to get halted and sprint across before the right-turning traffic coming off Broughton Road gets to you. That's if you've made it that far without either getting taken out by an oncoming vehicle that thinks it's a one-way street or by a pedestrian walking out the pub and not looking your way.

    Terrible piece of supposedly "cycle-friendly" infrastructure.

    Posted 11 years ago #
  16. chdot
    Admin

    Posted 7 years ago #
  17. chdot
    Admin

    Posted 7 years ago #
  18. Nelly
    Member

    That's one of those signs I have always ignored - so much so, I had forgotten it was there !

    I have never seen any cyclist dismount there.

    Posted 7 years ago #
  19. I've seen a couple of folks dismount, but have never done so myself. I take up much less space astride my bike whilst penned in the central island than I do standing beside it.

    (More useful there would be signs for drivers saying "When lights are red, the green man is on and pedestrians are crossing, you're meant to stop". Shocking numbers of drivers RLJ'ing at those lights.)

    Posted 7 years ago #
  20. algo
    Member

    I have dismounted there when there were pedestrians, but what I find more annoying is the fact that after all the planning and money spent, the tram bridge could not have somehow incorporated the cycle path allowing for a continuation. Perhaps it wasn't possible to do that, but having to cross three crossings like that on the way to Edinburgh Park is quite infuriating.

    Posted 7 years ago #
  21. Have posted a few times about that very point. There could have been a continuous off-road cyclepath from the airport to Haymarket. I mean, how good would that have been? It's seriously galling on this section to think what might have been.

    See also the lack of a cycle tunnel under Sheriffhall with the building of the Borders railway.

    Posted 7 years ago #
  22. Big_Smoke
    Member

    That's the junction with the dismount sign was outside the Bankhead tram stop correct?

    I never got why they just didn't build a series of bridges to keep the route continuous. I mean they build a tall bridge just to cross the road to Forrester High School but a trio of simple ones next to the tram lines in this day and age? Never. Come to think of it the trams are held up too given how uneven the route taken is. The Hermiston Gait to Bankhead is a 40 mph stretch that takes no time at all to travel while the rest is like a roller-coaster, for public transport? If they just made it consistently flat like the neighbouring railway it would have been credible at least.

    Posted 7 years ago #
  23. Murun Buchstansangur
    Member

    The tram line is pretty flat after Haymarket Yards? The only 2 tram bridges are both over the main Glasgow-Edinburgh train line, so it's not that roads have been prioritised over the tram. I think the main speed restrictor for the trams would be density of stops on the one hand and stopping distance for errant pedestrians in the urban area.

    However, the Haymarket Yards section is unlikely to make the Bumper Compendium of Excellent Tram Design, if such a tome is ever published...

    Posted 7 years ago #
  24. Snowy
    Member

    The bridge which carries the tram and shared use path over the railway at Stenhouse Drive is a good illustration that it can be done, and the bridge is only about 2 metres wider than if it had carried the tram alone. Why oh why didn't they do the same thing for the 3 bridges west of that - it's mind-bogglingly short-sighted. I suspect it's as simple as TIE scratching around for things to de-scope - who on earth would want to CYCLE or WALK anywhere?

    Posted 7 years ago #
  25. Rosie
    Member

    That bridge is a total joy as well, when you rise and see the view. It's not overly steep. Shared paths from the Haymarket to Edinburgh Park would have been fabulous.

    Posted 7 years ago #
  26. kaputnik
    Moderator

    I had long, circular and frsutrating pointless series of correspondance about the crossing at Bankhead / South Gyle Access with the Tram / Cycling folks back in the day when it became apparent how they intended to re-install the crossing after works.

    It went a bit like this;

    Me: this is stupid, it worked perfectly well as a single-phase temporary Toucan crossing for the 2+ years the works were in place
    Trams: yes but our design brief was to put things back as they were before works started
    Me: but it falls below the council's own design documents for where to use a two-phase crossing
    Trams: yes but that was written after the original crossing was designed, and we're putting it back as it was
    Me: So why did you re-instigate a sub-standard crossing when you could have designed and built a new one at the time and saved a lot of money that will inevitably need to be spent putting it right in the future
    Trams: That's the Cycling department's problem. If they want to put a better crossing in the future then they can design and specify one out of their budgets, we're only budgeted and specified to put it back as it was.
    Me: But it's not actually quite like it was, there's been complete re-alignment of all the approach paths as there's now a tram embankment where the path once was, resulting in a convoluted series of turns to get across where previously you could go straight across in one go with no turns.
    Trams: But we put the crossing back where it was, right?
    Me: Roughly, yes. But the new embankment has shifted the course of the path directly into a pile of traffic signal cabinets which you have tarmacced around
    Trams: They were already there, we can't touch them as that's the Roads department's remit
    Me: So why did you route a cycle path through it
    Trams: Well, there was no where else to put it.
    Me: You do realise that it's too narrow for cyclists to pass in the island?
    Trams: We've thought of that, we're going to put up some "dismount" signs.
    Me: What about wheelchairs?
    Trams: ?

    Posted 7 years ago #
  27. chdot
    Admin

    Well here's something that has been dealt with -

    But the fact that that the 'missing' block is nearby, suggests it wasn't removed by the Council.

    (This barrier is a Leith Walk tram works legacy!)

    Posted 7 years ago #
  28. chdot
    Admin

    It got put back of course.

    And moved again -

    Posted 7 years ago #

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