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Bike Hire Scheme Numbers

(26 posts)
  • Started 13 years ago by Wilmington's Cow
  • Latest reply from cb

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  1. The numbers game in Issue 10 of citycycling is all about Bike Hire Schemes around the world. It threw up some interesting numbers*:

    For instance Paris has the fewest 'people per bike' (110 people for every hire bike), while London is fairly middling (a bit over 1,000 people for every Boris bike).

    The largest scheme in the world is in Hangzhou, China, which has 60,600 bikes (around 134 people per every bike I think that came out at).

    Corfu only has 100 bikes, but the entire island population is only 109,000, so on a 'people per bike' scale it's close to London.

    Melbourne only has 450 bikes.

    And while Mexico City has a reasonable number of bikes, the sheer amount of people means there are over 7,000 of them per bike.

    The full list in the issue (online on Friday) includes Dublin and Montreal as well.

    *all population figures used were the 'city' population as bike hire schemes seem most centred on more central areas. 'Urban' population takes in the whole built-up area of a city, whereas 'Metropolitan' includes, I think, suburbs and offshots (for Edinburgh this would be places like Portobello, Musselburgh and Dalkeith I think, certainly there are big differences in the numbers)

    Posted 13 years ago #
  2. Here we go, in the Numbers Game

    http://www.citycycling.co.uk/Issue10/Numbers.html

    Posted 13 years ago #
  3. Baldcyclist
    Member

    What would be more useful is how those numbers translate into usage?
    Does having more bikes actually mean more people use them? You often see pictures of racks with lots of bikes in them, this isn't necessarily good. Bikes on racks mean no bikes in use...

    Posted 13 years ago #
  4. There's only so much space... ;)

    From getting the figures together they don't all have information easily available on number of journeys, but there was one striking comparison between Melbourne and Paris that stood out that I'm going to have to go and find now...

    Posted 13 years ago #
  5. chdot
    Admin

    Edinburgh (Council) doesn't see that a 'grand' bicycle scheme is worth the money. The London scheme had a big bank backer.

    Before the crash a Scottish version might have been possible..

    There is a niche option that's spreading north.

    “@BikeBizOnline: BikeRight! appointed service partner for Manchester @BromptonBicycle Dock http://www.bikebiz.com/news/read/bikeright-appointed-service-partner-for-manchester-brompton-dock/012886”

    Posted 13 years ago #
  6. fimm
    Member

    We came across a bike hire scheme in Newcastle at the weekend. I had no idea there was one.

    Posted 13 years ago #
  7. chdot
    Admin

  8. sallyhinch
    Member

    you forgot Dumfries! c. 20 bikes, population c. 30,000 usage pretty minimal tbh.

    Posted 13 years ago #
  9. chdot
    Admin

    "usage pretty minimal"

    I think this has affected Scottish Goverment's views on 'cycling' as it was (part?) funded by them.

    Posted 13 years ago #
  10. Morningsider
    Member

    Dumfries bike hire scheme was part of the Scottish Government's "Smarter choices, smarter places" pilot. Dumfries received £2.7m from the Scottish Government over three years, plus match funding from D&G Council, SWESTRANS, NHS and Chrichton Development Company.

    I don't think it's apparent low usage has really affected the Scottish Government's view of cycling.

    Posted 13 years ago #
  11. chdot
    Admin

    "I don't think it's apparent low usage has really affected the Scottish Government's view of cycling"

    I'm sure it hasn't been the pivotal factor.

    Dramatically more usage would be useful though

    There is an interim report for SC,SP.

    http://www.transportscotland.gov.uk/files/documents/roads/InterimReport_7_1_10_v1_2.pdf

    This was the SG's response to Cycling England's Cycle Towns.

    the SG decided that their project would be wider than just cycling. There was logic to this but it meant money was spread more thinly and the results harder to quantify.

    Posted 13 years ago #
  12. sallyhinch
    Member

    The Dumfries scheme was always doomed to be a niche affair. The area covered is tiny and mainly walkable anyway, and some of the locations are actually quite challenging to cycle to because of the road conditions (including, typically, the flagship sports centre). Hopefully it might just hammer home the message that if you don't make the town inviting to cycle in, no amount of orange bikes are suddenly going to transform the place into Amsterdam.

    We'll be taking some of our braver council candidates, MSPs and MP on a tour of the town by bike next Friday to point out some of the real barriers to cycling in the hope of seeing some continued cycling funding now that the Smarter Choices money has gone. Some will even be riding the hire bikes - because they don't have bikes of their own...

    Posted 13 years ago #
  13. sallyhinch
    Member

    I should add, in fairness to the Council, that they're extending the scheme to more outlying areas in the hopes that people will park on the edges and cycle (or bus) in. Although that would be more effective if parking wasn't largely free everywhere in town ...

    Posted 13 years ago #
  14. crowriver
    Member

    From SC.SP report, pp.13-14:

    "3.7 Key points are that:
    • There are no incidences where travelling by a mode 5 times a week or more has increased other than car passenger trips in GEE and the train in Dumfries
    • There are no places where walking has increased, even if we only look at once a week or more. Walking five times a week or more has gone down significantly in 5 out of the seven locations
    • There are no places where cycling has increased, even once a week or more. However it should be noted that further investigation shows that cycle ownership in Larbert/Stenhousemuir has increased slightly which could be related to SCSP marketing activity.
    • Where use of the car as a driver has gone down 5 days a week or more (Dumfries and L/S) it does not look from this aggregate analysis that it has been replaced with any other modes suggesting that the lower trip making may be due to wider factors suppressing trips (e.g. a slowing economy) rather than any SCSP interventions."

    So, basically, the entire scheme has had little, if any, effect on people's choices of transport mode?

    Then again, the scheme was so dispersed amongst different measures: trying to encourage bus, rail, walking and cycling all at the same time. Nearly half the budget was spent on 'promotion' activities/initiatives, whatever they might be. All across some very different areas: Barrhead, Dumfries, Dundee, Glasgow's East End, Kirkintilloch/Lenzie, Kirkwall, Larbert/Stenhousemuir. I don't know what the rationale was for selecting these areas in particular. However the thinly spread jam approach does not appear to have been very effective.

    Posted 13 years ago #
  15. chdot
    Admin

    "I don't know what the rationale was for selecting these areas in particular. However the thinly spread jam approach does not appear to have been very effective."

    I can't remember much of what I used to know of this whole process.

    Councils had to bid. I believe it had been decided to have a geographical spread (as long as there were suitable schemes).

    I always thought it was a mistake to make it more than just a cycle scheme (like England) - especially with the (relatively small amount of) money available.

    CEC put in a bid which I think was proposing a project in Leith.

    Posted 13 years ago #
  16. ruggtomcat
    Member

    Im very wary of money siphoned off for 'promotion' or 'education' simply because its so easy to subvert it into 'propaganda'. Its a sticky wicket because some things obviously need promoting like not going up the left of long vehicles, but its far to easy to fall into modes based in the ideological constructs of the peak oil society, for example victim-blame. This is quite apart from the normal ruse of using the money to tell everyone how good your doing something whilst actually doing b* all.

    At very best we have an innertube map.

    Posted 13 years ago #
  17. chdot
    Admin

    "easy to fall into modes based in the ideological constructs of the peak oil society, for example victim-blame"

    Think you'll have to expandexplain that.

    Posted 13 years ago #
  18. sallyhinch
    Member

    I think the towns were selected because they bid for them (in our case it was the regional transport partnership that did most of the work to put in the bid). The bulk of the activities in Dumfries were around the travel advisers who were supposed to help people get away from their cars. They also printed a cycling map (which is pretty useless because it doesn't show one ways or gradients) and put in a cycle path that links Georgetown to the Crichton campus (hospital and university) and which would be lovely if it didn't go up a 1-in-5 hill. Also a ride share scheme (off the back of a national ride share website) and better bus stops (countdown timers which are actually quite handy in town although not so much when your village bus only goes 4 times a day). They've also put in a tiny tiny 20 mph zone in the town centre and a new toucan crossing.

    But the real problem is that rural bus services into town are crap and about to be cut further and parking is free everywhere, it costs more to take the bus into town than to drive and takes twice as long, and cycling is a complete afterthought apart from some nice ex-railway paths (in the local transport strategy it actually said that cycling infrastructure was so good there was no need for further investment). That said, cycling does appear to have gone up, though I expect petrol at £1.40 a litre has a lot to do with that.

    I'm in a slightly difficult position here in that last year in a fit of frustration I founded Cycling Dumfries and I am trying to build a decent relationship with the council and at least try and get them to consult us BEFORE they spend the money on some expensive boondoggle. There are people within the council who seem to get it, but at the moment that doesn't seem to translate at all into action on the ground.

    oh well, this is way off topic for an Edinburgh cycling forum (but I imagine it's no different in small towns up and down the country)

    Posted 13 years ago #
  19. crowriver
    Member

    From the report conclusions:

    "6.4 Despite people perceiving that they have walked more and driven less, when they describe their travel patterns, the comparison of the 2009 and 2010 survey data suggests that travel behaviour change is still at an early stage:
    • Walking more than once per week does not seem to have gone up anywhere. This is disappointing given the interest in active travel in all of the areas.
    • Dumfries is the only place where car driving seems to have been reduced, which is in line with the aims of the residents there who wanted to drive less, and the declining economy with less economic activity generating trips.
    • Glasgow and Dumfries are the only places where bus use has increased.
    • Glasgow is the only place where car ownership per adult has reduced. This would be consistent with an economic downturn where many people at the margins of affording a car can no longer afford one.

    6.5 Local surveys on core walking and cycling routes reveal that some very positive local changes are taking place, with increases in activity of up to 25% in one year. It may be that people are walking and cycling less overall, but increasing their use of the best or busiest routes. The cordon surveys around Glasgow city centre reveal this pattern, with the busiest routes increasing by the greatest amount. This is not surprising since if more people walk then safety improves helping to support a virtuous circle of improvement.

    6.11 The overall SCSP delivery programme is very short. In the English sustainable travel towns the investment was allowed five years to bed in. If the required culture, attitude and behaviour change is to be attained over a three year period to make the investment sustainable then there is much to do over the coming year."

    Posted 13 years ago #
  20. chdot
    Admin

    "6.11 The overall SCSP delivery programme is very short. In the English sustainable travel towns the investment was allowed five years to bed in. If the required culture, attitude and behaviour change is to be attained over a three year period to make the investment sustainable then there is much to do over the coming year."

    QUITE!

    That was the from the interim report. There may be a final version which is unlikely to be much different.

    I suspect SG will view the conclusions as 'didn't real work' rather than 'not enough was invested to make the sort of changes that our policies and pledges say we want to achieve'.

    Posted 13 years ago #
  21. crowriver
    Member

    I suspect, given the current attitudes of SG ministers, that their view is "there is no evidence that people want to get out of their cars, we tried to persuade them, but nothing happened." So, back to the status quo/keeping the majority 'happy'.

    Posted 13 years ago #
  22. Tulyar
    Member

    The Brompton Dock scheme Is a bit different to the bike sharing concepts of the Bixi (London) Hourbike (Dumfries & Blackpool) and Scratchbikes (Newcastle). Unlike the schemes that put up the price to encourgae bike return the Brompton Dock scheme encourages the user to keep the bike out on hire for as long as possible. As a result the manually operated trial scheme which began operating in London in May 2009 (pre Barclays bike) has quietly had 50 and then 100 bikes almost continuously out on hire, and showing up as 0.3% of the 19,000 onward trips by bike in the TfL survey of London Stations morening peak onward travel by mode.

    The deal is simple and replicates what you expect from a bus, train or hired car, a bike which is fully serviced for you, and if it breaks down you simply swap it for a working one. There are at present 2 tariffs (just like a mobile phone) a cheap £10 casual user one (with higher hire rates) and £50 for frequent user, which gives a daily hire rate for a month long user of around £1.60/day.

    Partners organisations fund a Brompton Dock on their site and Brompton Dock provide the full package of management and revenue collection, with a revenue sharing deal. Because of the varaibles - user profile hire patterns, and whether the branding and colours of the bike are 'sold' as a promotional opportunity. Further given that a London HQ of a major international group has noted for every employee who does not require a parking space on site they save £9000/yr, several companies have worked out that it is cheaper by a factor of between 3 and 15 depending on the annual cost of leasing/rates for a car park space to provide a fully serviced bike than a parking space.

    The University of Greenwich is already looking to offer free bike hire to deliver a higher level of service at a lower cost (than hired minibuses) for inter site journeys made by staff & students.

    In Newcastle perhaps the most interesting development has occurred which Edinburgh is well placed to deliver with. Go Northeast like all Go Ahead companies has a KeyCard which carries stored value and gives massive discounts on cash fares when used on their buses. The key card holders have an option of free membership of Scratchbikes, and Commonwheels (the car sharing club) if they want to register for either, and pay for the use they make of these schemes. If you have a car to get rid of then giving it to Go Northeast will see them crediting the Key Card with a cash value equal to twice the sum they get for the old car - in most cases at least a year's worth of bus travel.

    Edinburgh is well placed to deliver something similar with Lothian Buses established RidaCard, which could offer free membership of the City Car Club and an Edinburgh bike scheme, and a car scrappage deal. This concept has been operating with the Belgian bus & tram operator TEC since 2009 where scrapping your car with them gained you up to 3 years free bus travel, a car club membership and hire of a folding bike for €13/month (a subsidised rate), with the bikes in bus company branding (so the bus drivers smile and wave at cyclists on TEC bikes).

    Thing I'll post this last para as a separate thread and offer Anth a piece for City Cycling.

    Posted 13 years ago #
  23. chdot
    Admin

    Thanks Tulyar.

    Useful to have the basic details of (some of) the options.

    I think this could be developed more with the hope of seeing 'something happen' after the election.

    It doesn't really matter who gets in, all parties are now (to some degree) in favour of walking and cycling and better public transport.

    I don't thing the 'war on the motorist' rhetoric works as well in Edinburgh as it might in some other places.

    The idea of 20mph zones and greater speed reduction (and enforcement) has gone down reasonable well, not least with the Evening News, which is a significant step forward.

    I suspect the EN is now more likely to be saying 'why can't CEC do this' rather than "CEC wastes money on silly schemes'.

    Posted 13 years ago #
  24. chdot
    Admin

  25. cb
    Member

    Bike hire scheme in Dumfries:


    Dumfries Bike2Go by ccbb7766, on Flickr

    Posted 13 years ago #
  26. cb
    Member

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-south-scotland-19634900

    "Figures for Scotland's first bike hire scheme show it has averaged less than 20 rentals a week since it was started two years ago."

    "That translates to a cost of more than £100 per hire since the project got under way in the town."

    Posted 12 years ago #

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