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Review of sentencing for killing cyclists

(44 posts)
  • Started 2 years ago by 14Westfield
  • Latest reply from Cycle PC

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  1. 14Westfield
    Member

    The cycling silk blogsite by Martin Porter has a post on the sentences that people convited of causing the death of cyclist have received. It is English law so slightly different to us but a informative read.

    Posted 2 years ago #
  2. crowriver
    Member

    I note that 'blinded by the light' is gaining popularity as a defence...

    Link to British Cycling campaign on sentencing policy:
    http://www.britishcycling.org.uk/about/article/bc20120301-British-Cycling--“Light-sentences-for-drivers-undermine-confidence-in-the-justice-system”-0

    Posted 2 years ago #
  3. That's an excellent blog post (so much so I've asked for permission to reprint it).

    I've always hated the 'couldn't see for the sun' excuse. If the sun is so bad that you can't actually see what's in front of you then why are you still driving?

    Posted 2 years ago #
  4. crowriver
    Member

    But Anth, you can't deny folk their inalienable right to drive, whatever the circumstances. Driving licenses are sacred, dontcha know?

    Posted 2 years ago #
  5. So it would seem. The guy who was found guilty, but plead his innocence, who ran over someone going onto a sliproad with nothing obscuring his vision but 'didn't expect' a cyclist to be there was banned for 12 months and doesn't have to re-sit a test to get his licence back.

    Posted 2 years ago #
  6. bax
    Member

    The recent launch of this British Cycling campaign was enough for me to switch my annual subs from CTC to British Cycling.

    Although to be fair I didn't need too much encouragement to finally turn my back on CTC.

    Posted 2 years ago #
  7. sallyhinch
    Member

    my mother in law managed to hit a bus due to low sun. A BUS. She's suitably embarrassed about it & it was a slow collision with no harm done but it's always made me cycle extra extra carefully on those low sunny winter days

    Posted 2 years ago #
  8. cb
    Member

    It's definitely worth being aware of the risks when there is a low sun about. Non drivers perhaps don't realise how a low sun can sometimes all but obliterate the view out the windscreen.

    Posted 2 years ago #
  9. amir
    Member

    "Non drivers perhaps don't realise how a low sun can sometimes all but obliterate the view out the windscreen. "

    Surely the problem is that drivers don't realise or don't take appropriate action.

    Posted 2 years ago #
  10. alibali
    Member

    Yes, modern cars have steeply raked windscreens and offer a low contrast view even in normal lighting. Combined with glasses, very tricky.

    Posted 2 years ago #
  11. Min
    Member

    "Non drivers perhaps don't realise how a low sun can sometimes all but obliterate the view out the windscreen."

    But why would drivers just keep battering on when they can't see anything?

    Posted 2 years ago #
  12. crowriver
    Member

    Surely the problem is that drivers don't realise or don't take appropriate action.

    Exactly.

    But why would drivers just keep battering on when they can't see anything?

    I refer the honourable gentleman/lady to the remark I made some moments ago.*

    * An old favourite of John Major's, I recall.

    P.S.:- chdot, why is this forum's dictionary correct-o-bot set to US English? We may be Scots, but we are still 'British'! (In the geographical/linguistic sense mostly).

    Posted 2 years ago #
  13. alibali
    Member

    Without wishing to justify "battering on" when blinded, it can happen suddenly, such as when emerging from the shadow of a building (or a bus?).

    Posted 2 years ago #
  14. chdot
    Admin

    "
    P.S.:- chdot, why is this forum's dictionary correct-o-bot set to US English?

    "

    Um

    Wasn't aware it was

    My computas spell check as I tipe.

    Don't know if UK option.

    Will look later.

    Posted 2 years ago #
  15. crowriver
    Member

    It flags up "honourable" and "favourite" with wee red wiggly pixelly lines underneath. For example. Let's try....colour, yep; flavour, yep; labour, no; savour; no, interesting.

    Posted 2 years ago #
  16. steveo
    Member

    Sure its not your browser settings?

    Posted 2 years ago #
  17. chdot
    Admin

    "with wee red wiggly pixelly lines underneath"

    Ah, so that won't be the BBPress spellcheck.

    "Sure its not your browser settings?"

    Worth a look...

    Posted 2 years ago #
  18. crowriver
    Member

    Doh! I believe it may have been my dishonourable browser. Switched the spell check off... (blush).

    Posted 2 years ago #
  19. chdot
    Admin

    All answers are here -

    (not just cycling...)

    Posted 2 years ago #
  20. Min
    Member

    "Without wishing to justify "battering on" when blinded, it can happen suddenly, such as when emerging from the shadow of a building (or a bus?). "

    Neither of the cases illustrated had any mention of emerging from the shadow of a building or bus. Both drivers clearly knew full well they could not see a thing, but just kept on driving anyway until they ran over and killed people. There is no way to justify that.

    Posted 2 years ago #
  21. Smudge
    Member

    What Min said, also, a decent driver, being aware of the low sun, would be extra catious when emerging from shadow, and anyone with any sort of commonsense would moderate their speed and/or clean their windscreen if unable to see what they were driving towards!
    That's a drivers observation not a cyclists btw!!

    Posted 2 years ago #
  22. Instography
    Member

    The solution to it happening suddenly is to stop suddenly, for fear of hitting something while temporarily blinded.

    There's no questioning what happened or the guilt or innocence. Most of the people admitted what they had done and tried to find mitigation in some feeble excuse. It's well worth reading Martin Porter's blog because he locates the problem precisely - in the decision to charge what is manifestly dangerous as careless and the decision of judges to give the lowest sentence possible.

    Posted 2 years ago #
  23. custard
    Member

  24. I remember seeing that last year (it's taken a LONG time to charge him!) and thinking it was ridiculous. Once is careless etc etc etc.

    I think Insto pointed out on another thread - killing someone with a car or truck or whatever appears to be less serious, at the moment, than setting fire to a furniture store (I don't disagree with that sentence mind you).

    Posted 2 years ago #
  25. crowriver
    Member

    Unbelievable that the same guy has killed again. Needs a lifetime ban and some prison time.

    Posted 2 years ago #
  26. cb
    Member

    "
    "Non drivers perhaps don't realise how a low sun can sometimes all but obliterate the view out the windscreen. "

    Surely the problem is that drivers don't realise or don't take appropriate action.
    "

    That certainly is a problem.
    Even if drivers do slow down/ take extra care, etc. the situation is still made more dangerous by a low sun and that is something that a cyclist or pedestrian might be unaware of.

    Posted 2 years ago #
  27. Min
    Member

    No deaths or injuries in this case but still a staggeringly light sentence for someone who is clearly a complete psycho. And who will be back behind the wheel in 18 months.

    Posted 2 years ago #
  28. Min
    Member

    Meanwhile if you cause any damage to any cars (three cars in fact) you can expect to go to jail and be refused bail as the dangerous criminal you are. Note there were no actual people in the cars at the time.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-tayside-central-17788830

    It is not made clear how he is supposed to work to pay for the damage from prison.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  29. crowriver
    Member

    "three cars that were parked outside a police station."

    Ah well, they'll have had him "bang to rights" then. The Sheriff's attitude does seem harsh, mind you.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  30. I would imagine that a background report to go with the sentencing revealed he's got a bit of 'history' of one criminal sort or another. But even so, it does seem wildliy out of proportion if you accept that killing someone with a car only warrants community service and a short ban.

    The other way of looking at it is that the car damage case has the correct sentence, and killign by driving penalties should be more harsh/stark/proportionate/reflective of the damage these cause.

    Posted 1 year ago #

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