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Broomhouse Rumblestrips - Bollards to all that

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  1. Nelly
    Member

    Couldn't find the original thread where these new wondrous bits of infrastructure exist - check out the hidden bollards.....yes I lifted the flap, and below looks like a key operated bollard. Nicely placed for me to catch my Carradice on way past - Does anyone know the point of these ?????

    Posted 4 years ago #
  2. custard
    Member

    no idea
    which one was that on?

    Posted 4 years ago #
  3. Nelly
    Member

    This one opposite civil service, but appear to be installing at each "strip"

    Posted 4 years ago #
  4. custard
    Member

    then I have no idea
    are the envisaging raising these to 'enforce' the split?
    is this where the cycling % of the budget is going?

    Posted 4 years ago #
  5. steveo
    Member

    Maybe they're worried about cars on the path, not that I've seen that as a problem. As we've learned from the lift bridge an invisioned problem is often enough to create unnecessary work.

    Posted 4 years ago #
  6. custard
    Member

    I suppose it could relate to the parts with dropped kerbs nearby
    however as you say,its a solution to a problem that isnt present.
    anyway,with grass either side. the bollard won't stop vehicles

    Posted 4 years ago #
  7. kaputnik
    Member

    @Nelly I rode over this evening, well, around as they had dumped a big cone on it while it sets I guess. I have previously had a good whine on another thread about the pointless rumble/slide strips.

    The problem with this path is the connectivity at each major road it intersects with (i.e. there isn't any) and yet the investment is put in pointless anti-cycling measures. This is really infuriating, if this is what increased "cycling" budget goes on, they can take it back.

    After POP is out the way, and if a bollard appears, a rather disgruntled email or 2 will be getting fired off. Think I'll wait for after the elections and target the new or re-elected members responsible for transport and that ward.

    Posted 4 years ago #
  8. Uberuce
    Member

    Hilariweep. Inspired by DaveC asking about it, I went back through the Cycle Facility of the Month, and as I expect you've guessed:

    http://homepage.ntlworld.com/pete.meg/wcc/facility-of-the-month/August2010.htm

    I'm going to bed.

    Posted 4 years ago #
  9. Nelly
    Member

    Bit of a resurrection this, but I know Uberuce and kaputnik love these bits of infrastructure too!

    emailed the west team about a couple of grumbles on the broomhouse path - response below....

    Thank you for your emails regarding the cyclepath at Broomhouse.

    There is a requirement to provide tactiles for blind and partially
    sighted pedestrians to advise them of a change from a shared use surface
    to a segregated cycle/pedestrian path. The route from Stenhouse to
    Edinburgh Park is segregated for most of its length. However, there are
    short lengths of path where cyclists and pedestrians share the same
    area. For example on the approach to signalised junction crossings. The
    tactile slabs are therefore provided at the points where the use of the
    path changes.

    There are recommended patterns of slab to be used on the cycling and
    pedestrian sides. The contractor has been asked to check these locations
    to ensure that the correct pattern has been used.

    The contractor has been instructed to ensure that the temporary paths
    and areas at which they are operating are cleaned and maintained
    appropriately.

    I would like to thank you for bringing these matters to our attention,
    and should you require any further information please contact me.

    Regards,

    .....removed.....

    ...removed.... | Customer Services Manager | Tram Co-ordination Team |
    City of Edinburgh Council

    9 Lochside Avenue | Edinburgh Park | Edinburgh | EH12 9DJ

    Tel: 0131 623 8815

    .......@edinburgh.gov.uk

    Posted 4 years ago #
  10. kaputnik
    Member

    @nelly - interesting reply.

    There are separate "tactile" (raised dot) sections as you would expect at a pedestrian crossing, but I think these were always there, the rumble/slide strips were added later. If that is their purpose, they should be across the entire width of the path, in the same direction, as on a segregated path the segregation applies only to the cyclist.

    I'd have no issue if all the slabs were aligned as rumble rather than slide strips. The very shallow raised kerbing between the 2 sections is as far as I am concerned an accident waiting to happen when someone catches one at the wrong angle in the dark, wet or on an icy day.

    Posted 4 years ago #
  11. Morningsider
    Member

    kaps - the trouble is, the Guidance produced by the UK Department for Transport actually states that the cycle track side should be of the slider/tramline variety. See page 54:

    http://assets.dft.gov.uk/publications/guidance-on-the-use-of-tactile-paving-surfaces/tactile-pavement.pdf

    Until this is changed, this kind of thing will keep being installed.

    Posted 4 years ago #
  12. Arellcat
    Member

    Sounds alright to me, Nelly. I think this is the thread (and post) you're looking for:

    http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=5929#post-64437

    or go direct to the horse's mouth:

    http://assets.dft.gov.uk/publications/guidance-on-the-use-of-tactile-paving-surfaces/tactile-pavement.pdf

    Interestingly, the DfT says that a white painted line is not sufficient in itself to demarcate the pedestrian and cyclist lanes on a segregated path, because visually impaired people will not be able to tell which side is which. Yet the Broomhouse-Stenhouse path is extremely obviously not set out to that standard. It's barely set out to any standard at all, really. Come to think of it, MMW doesn't follow that guidance either.

    The provision for bollards is mystifying though. What will a single bollard stop when you can go round on the grass? Ah, perhaps they're going to fence in the paths at those points.

    Posted 4 years ago #
  13. kaputnik
    Member

    As a daily user of the path, footfall is very low and is generally restricted to people walking to/from bus stops. It really could survive perfectly well as a shared rather than segregated us path - if the whole NEPN works this way, why can't this section?

    In practical operation, the path really is shared and doesn't function in its intended manner for reasons mentioned above.

    Posted 4 years ago #
  14. Nelly
    Member

    @kaputnik @Arellcat, yep thats the thread I was looking for.

    Its odd too, as they have sourced different sets of tactile paving - the ones immediately around Edin Park station are better, as the strips are wider = less chance of skidding out.

    I have not responded on the 'segregation' part yet, but I did laugh out loud, wondering if a blind person could in some way sense 20 microns of broken down centre line !!

    I wonder if the bollard bit is to stop people entering the path with motor vehicles? Its all a mystery.

    I also asked them to hoover up all the blinking glass / detritus and look at the temporary path just west of Makro, as its disintegrating fast (cold weather will completely knacker it).

    Posted 4 years ago #
  15. Uberuce
    Member

    I'm going to start taking a proper count for a decent number of days, but I am gut-instinctive that the majority of pedestrians use the cycle half.

    I did think the cheapest plan would be to torch off the bike diagrams and repaint on the current ped side, but Kap's right - the path is de facto shared use across the whole width already, so why bother with that step?

    Posted 4 years ago #
  16. Arellcat
    Member

    @uberuce, I had the same thoughts a while ago:

    "I think people habitually walk on the side of a path that's furthest from perceived danger. This becomes the side away from the canal, or the western side of the path through Braidburn Valley."

    and it just so happens that the ped side on this one is nearest the road: possibly to reduce the need for visually impaired people to cross more than necessary of a path that has other, faster users.

    Posted 4 years ago #
  17. cc
    Member

    A week or two back I noticed quite a few of these same rumble/slide strips on a shared path in Scarborough. Every single one had been installed so that cyclists had the strips running along the path and pedestrians had them running across the path.

    Presumably this is the official way to orientate them. (Remote centralised government, don't you love it)

    Posted 4 years ago #
  18. slowcoach
    Member

    cc, The orientation is the official way - rumble strips for ped side, tramlines for cyclist side - but the the slabs used here are the wrong ones as they have too many ridges/the ridges are too narrow and too close together. The right slabs are shown here http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=9230&page=4#post-97069 and here http://www.tobermore.co.uk/tactile_flags.aspx?AspxAutoDetectCookieSupport=1

    Posted 4 years ago #
  19. gembo
    Member

    Noticed these new massive rumblestrips on the uphill bits that still haven't opened on either side of the lights on the way to the gale the other day

    Posted 4 years ago #
  20. Nelly
    Member

    If you look at my original post, I took a photo of the wee square box at the end of the rumblestrips? This is the result - this one at the end of Bankhead Drive and one at the underpass between Edin Park Station and Edin Park.

    Posted 3 years ago #
  21. Uberuce
    Member

    I suspect nowadays that they had enough slabs to do it right, with the wide flat-top ones on the cycle side and the narrow rounded ones on the ped, but somebody somewhere didn't pass that on to the workies. They just laid the first ones to hand on both sides until they ran out, then laid the other kind on both sides.

    I haven't counted the number of rumbles west of South Gyle Access, so I could be talking Le Guff.

    Posted 3 years ago #
  22. Pintail
    Member

    Great, navigating around that bollard is going to create an angle onto the tramline rumblestrips to make it even more likely that someone is going to come off on them.

    Posted 3 years ago #
  23. kaputnik
    Member

    How will Crummock drive their vans down the path now?!

    Posted 3 years ago #
  24. gembo
    Member

    Will be interesting to see how those bollards stand the test of time

    Posted 3 years ago #
  25. steveo
    Member

    How will Crummock drive their vans down the path now?!

    Worry ye not, those are pop up bollards, a van should be able to drive over them with out even slowing down.

    Posted 3 years ago #
  26. Nelly
    Member

    I'm strangely pleased. No more single syllable explanations to the non-moving krispy kremers at the bus stop that "its a shared path tubby".

    Posted 3 years ago #
  27. chdot
    Admin

    Apparently there is now a shared path bollard on the Ed Park underpass ramp from the station.

    So there you can choose which rumble strips to use!?!?

    Posted 3 years ago #
  28. Nelly
    Member

    chdot - its the same as the one in my photo above, I also forgot to mention yesterday that the picture on the reverse doesnt show a 'bike' and 'ped' side as such - but a bike flying above the peds.

    I tested their resilience earlier, and now have a sore hand - they are quite solid !

    As an aside, has anyone else noticed the new slopey concrete bits just about at the carrick knowe bridge? Kids using them as a pseudo skate park tonight - actually I went up and down on my bike earlier too - good fun !

    Posted 3 years ago #
  29. steveo
    Member

    Kids using them as a pseudo skate park tonight

    Yeah I saw them at it, how long before a pebble dash is added for 'ealth and safty.

    Posted 3 years ago #
  30. chdot
    Admin

    "I also forgot to mention yesterday that the picture on the reverse doesnt show a 'bike' and 'ped' side as such - but a bike flying above the peds."

    So it's to indicate beginning/end of segregated path.

    There is no segregated path on tunnel route to Ed Park!!

    So white line soon??

    Posted 3 years ago #

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