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ASL stats

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  1. chdot
    Admin

    Well this will confirm some things...

    "

    Number of stops in regards to advice given for “Drive safe, cycle safe”
    Phase one 2nd of April to 5th of April
    Northbridge southwards corridor
     
    Totals in Bold
     
     

    In summary
     
    • 32% of vehicles stopped for entering ASL’s were black cabs
    • 50% of vehicles stopped were private cars.
    • 80% of vehicles were driven by males.
     
    • 75 % of those stopped committing cycling offences were male.
     
    All stops recorded were backed by legislation and could have been subject to fixed penalty tickets had the week been about enforcement, not education.
     
    Feedback from officers on patrol was that there appeared to be lack of knowledge on the ASL’s however cyclists were aware of the red light offence and many cyclists were deterred by the presence of officers and as such the figures reflect this.
     
     
    Some examples of feed back from patrol officers
     
    • One female cyclist in her mid twenties was spoken to who was cycling in the oncoming lane heading for the advanced stop box. We only spoke to her due to the speed and volume of the oncoming traffic we felt it was dangerous for her.
    • 3 pedestrians spoke to us commenting on how pleased they were to see the police getting involved with this issue. 2 of these people were from Edinburgh Uni. They were all cyclists themselves. One cyclist approached us and again commented on how pleased he was to see the work we were doing.
    • Around 21 motorists were spoken to re entering the box at lights. Around 10 were male, (with them being 40 - 50 years), 5 female (40-50 years) and the remaining 6 were evenly split 25 - 35 age group of males and females. So 13 male in total and the remaining 8 female. Of note about four of these drivers were professional black cab drivers. Most stated ignorance of the boxes.
    • About 7 cyclists were seen to go through red lights. 4 were male and the remaining 3 female all in the age group 25-35. All used the excuse of 'running late' or 'impatience.'

    "

    Posted 12 years ago #
  2. crowriver
    Member

    So, watch out for middle aged drivers and young cyclists, then. Reinforces some stereotypes!

    Posted 12 years ago #
  3. wingpig
    Member

    I wonder if they did anything like photograph the perpetrators to allow other classifications (such as the luggage-type or handlebar-shape of the offending cyclists) to be determined at a later date?

    Posted 12 years ago #
  4. SRD
    Moderator

    what gets me is the 'professed ignorance'. what do they think those sections are?!

    Posted 12 years ago #
  5. Baldcyclist
    Member

    ...and also, that given the volumes of both motor and cyclist traffic, that the cyclists must be committing more offences? 106 drivers stopped out of x thousands. 32 cyclists out of x hundreds.

    Or of course it could be the police were just more forceful with cyclists, or that it is easier to stop them, ow whatever other reasons not known...

    But in terms of simple statistics which Joe Bloggs will look at the cyclists come out pretty badly on this.

    Posted 12 years ago #
  6. "what gets me is the 'professed ignorance'. what do they think those sections are?!"

    Odd isn't it. I do genuinely believe that there are some of those people who don't know what they're for, but, yes, there's a big box with a bike painted on it, you'd think they would click, or even ponder why some junctions have that area.

    Though I fear most who profess ignorance are simply lying.

    Posted 12 years ago #
  7. crowriver
    Member

    Yep, it all fits the "I haven't done anything wrong" mentality of quite a number of drivers. A short leap of the imagination to "I can do no wrong, it's all their fault over there".

    Sigh.

    Posted 12 years ago #
  8. "Or of course it could be the police were just more forceful with cyclists, or that it is easier to stop them, ow whatever other reasons not known..."

    One of the other reasons is that if the first driver obeys the box at the red light then for that entire red sequence no other driver can go round them to sit in the box - so if one doesn't do it then all don't do it. Equally, if one does sit in the box no-one else can, so you can only capture one person per sequence.

    Whereas cyclists can filter and so for one red sequence 2 or 3 or more can break the red light. There's simply a fundamental difference in how drivers and cyclists break the law, and the proportions in which it is possible.

    Posted 12 years ago #
  9. "Yep, it all fits the "I haven't done anything wrong" mentality of quite a number of drivers. A short leap of the imagination to "I can do no wrong, it's all their fault over there"."

    Interesting to compare with the cyclists, none of whom, it appears, actually tried to say that they didn't know they weren't allowed to go through the red. Is this better or worse? Knowingly breaking the law, or being ignorant of it? (or knowing the law but thinking being ignorant of it is a good excuse).

    Posted 12 years ago #
  10. wingpig
    Member

    "Or of course it could be the police were just more forceful with cyclists, or that it is easier to stop them, ow whatever other reasons not known..."

    Pursuant to anth's reply above, it's also dead easy for a police to beckon a miscreant cyclist over to the side of the road to record their demographic and give them their talking-to, whereas doing the same with a naughty motorist requires blocking precious traffic.

    Posted 12 years ago #
  11. fimm
    Member

    I do sometimes wonder if drivers think that they may enter the ASL if there isn't already a bike in it, or something like that.

    Of note about four of these drivers were professional black cab drivers. Most stated ignorance of the boxes.
    You would kind of expect people who drive for a living to be more aware of the Highway Code, wouldn't you...?

    Posted 12 years ago #
  12. Baldcyclist
    Member

    ...or maybe the Police did stop those offending irrespective of their mode of transport, and we have to just have to accept that we simply have a genuine issue to address here.

    Posted 12 years ago #
  13. SRD
    Moderator

    ha! had a black cab driver tell me that ASLs didn't count 'after half-six' (he also claimed to be a licensed driving instructor). Such rubbish. Scares me that people must believe it sometimes.

    Posted 12 years ago #
  14. wingpig
    Member

    "...and we have to just have to accept that we simply have a genuine issue to address here"

    This is known. That's why I mutter/grumble/frown/shout at people I see on the pavement and/or skipping lights.

    "ha! had a black cab driver tell me that ASLs didn't count 'after half-six'"

    My favourite is when a bus driver told me that if I went into an ASZ in front of him that I'd know about it.

    Posted 12 years ago #
  15. chdot
    Admin

    "I do sometimes wonder if drivers think that they may enter the ASL if there isn't already a bike in it, or something like that."

    I think that is definitely true.

    There's also the 'classic ' - as reported by SRD on here - of the black cab driver saying 'doesnt apply after 6:00'

    Posted 12 years ago #
  16. crowriver
    Member

    He's thinking of bus lanes.

    Must say I haven't noticed so much RLJing recently, though there is always the odd "rules don't apply to me" cyclist around. What is getting my goat a bit is the number of cyclists trundling along the pavement outside Waverly Market/Waverley Steps.

    Yes, okay, the road is completely blocked; the pavement is wide, and occasionally quiet (usually stowed with folk); they are (mostly) being careful. For goodness sake though, it's only a few yards. I get off and push, so can you!

    Posted 12 years ago #
  17. amir
    Member

    I wonder if there is any association with location. Certainly I have seen more cyclists RLJer's near the centre than the outskirts but there are also more cyclists. My a priori feeling on ASL is that there is more compliance nearer the centre but I expect I am completely wrong. Understanding this might help targetting.

    Posted 12 years ago #
  18. Dave
    Member

    There are other measures that could be used that might help get a fuller picture, such as 'proportion of light phases where either line was violated by cyclists / drivers where there was opportunity to do so'.

    Some stuff needs careful disclaiming. For instance, because only 5% of cyclists are women, to discover that 25% of red light jumping cyclists are women would seem to ring alarm bells - but of course, it may be that every man jumped the reds and only a small proportion of the women, but there happened to be a sudden rush of women (plus, 5% is made up).

    Posted 12 years ago #
  19. Dave
    Member

    Also, anyone know where exactly "Northbridge southwards corridor" is, as I'd be interested to do a survey?

    Posted 12 years ago #
  20. amir
    Member

    Whilst the figures for this snapshot are interesting, it would not be sensible to extrapolate to the wider world.

    Posted 12 years ago #
  21. alibali
    Member

    This has been a useful and worthwhile excersise and I think it should be repeated regularly until the statistics show a marked improvement.

    Maybe I'm over-sensitive after Ester's outburst on R4 but I'm slightly puzzled by the collection of male/female statistics, which seem about as useful as recording the vehicle colour or (more controversially) hair colour of miscreants. Why does the gender of the person in charge of a vehicle matter?

    Posted 12 years ago #
  22. 559
    Member

    Interesting figures, what it does demonstrate is that there are both poor cyclists and poor drivers. These are the ones who are noticed by all parties, during our day to day commute.

    Consider detailed analysis of the figures of little value as traffic volumes change all the time, due to holidays, weather etc. But it does illustrate issues.

    Posted 12 years ago #
  23. Instography
    Member

    I think their sex is potentially important because even in these small numbers it suggests there might be a systematic difference. In general, infringers seem to be more likely to be men (assuming it's not also the case that drivers are more likely to be men, equalising infringement rates). If you're producing information and publicity it's often helpful to know who you should be aiming it at.

    Posted 12 years ago #
  24. Instography
    Member

    If I was stopped by the police for doing something naughty, my first line of defence would be 'sorry officer, it was a mistake. I had no idea', with 'please just give me a telling off' as the subtext.

    Posted 12 years ago #
  25. Dave
    Member

    One thing I find amusing, constantly, is that people call for cycle training to tackle the 'issue' of red light jumping for example, but if you go out into the world and haul up red light jumpers, none of them will say they didn't know what a red light meant.

    chdot - I can't find anything online to help identify where they were monitoring. Do you know?

    Posted 12 years ago #
  26. crowriver
    Member

    Maybe here?

    http://g.co/maps/h5mv5

    Posted 12 years ago #
  27. alibali
    Member

    If you're producing information and publicity it's often helpful to know who you should be aiming it at.

    Yes, drivers and cyclists surely. Not men and women.

    Posted 12 years ago #
  28. crowriver
    Member

    Yes, drivers and cyclists surely. Not men and women.

    That's going to pretty niche targetting then. Drivers and cyclists who are neither men nor women - can't be more than a dozen in Edinburgh, surely?

    Posted 12 years ago #
  29. cb
    Member

    Instography : If I was stopped by the police for doing something naughty, my first line of defence would be 'sorry officer, it was a mistake. I had no idea', with 'please just give me a telling off' as the subtext.

    I agree with that. I think that explains much of the 'professed ignorance'.

    Posted 12 years ago #
  30. alibali
    Member

    Drivers and cyclists who are neither men nor women

    LOL good point!

    Posted 12 years ago #

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