CityCyclingEdinburgh Forum » Commuting

Change to Internal Hub Gears?

(40 posts)
  • Started 14 years ago by Wilmington's Cow
  • Latest reply from chdot

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  1. Wilmington's Cow
    Member

    I'm considering changing from derailleur to internal hub gears on my Kaffenback. The 10 speed Campagnolo is sooooooooooooo pretty that I'd keep hold of it in case I wanted a 'fast' road bike - but more and more the Kaff is doing commuting duties when the fixed wheel is off the road (BB needs replaced at the mo), and the more I think about it the 'guards and putting the pannier rack on make sense.

    Thous give me a couple of months and I'll be pining for the fixed again - I think I need a fixed as fun as this one, but with 'guard and rack mounts... Yet ANOTHER bike!

    Anyway, back to the OP. I've put together and renovated a few bikes now, but never dealt with internal hub gears before. Do they work in conjunction with front derailleurs to give more range?

    Posted 14 years ago #

  2. LaidBack
    Member

    Some do. The Helios tandem Omnis Plus version has a 16 speed option that uses a 52/42 on front to an Alfine 8 speed hub gear on back. Bear in mind this is a 20" wheeled bike.
    Swiss internet bike company Simpel Simpel Velos Suisse use this system too for their hybrid style bikes.

    SRAM dual drive is one I sell most often but that flips the concept round. I guess you want back end of bike 'clean".

    Posted 14 years ago #

  3. chdot
    Admin

    "Do they work in conjunction with front derailleurs to give more range?"

    Can do.

    There are various ways of increasing range over 'normal' 3 speeds.

    Hub with more gears

    Hub + rear cluster (like Birdy you raced last year)

    Obviously with that, or using front deraileur, you'll need a rear mech.

    Posted 14 years ago #

  4. LaidBack
    Member

    Of course if you want to see a nice variation on a classic theme then Peter Eland at Velo Vision is doing a neat job with his Villiers Velo machine.

    Front end uses Schlumpf. Rear hub is three speed. So less cables again. Only 6 gears though.

    This is Velo Vision's new test rig and I was lucky enough to see on recent visit. Check it out online.

    Can get you a Schlumpf.

    Posted 14 years ago #

  5. Wilmington's Cow
    Member

    Yeah, I like the fixed 'look'... ;)

    Posted 14 years ago #

  6. Wilmington's Cow
    Member

    To be honest, if I was thinking of using the Kaff more for commuting, and occasinal ride out of the city, 8 gears would likely be enough. At the moment I tend to stay on the middle ring and use a range of about 5 (whenever I hit an uphill it takes me a few moments out of the saddle to remember I can change down. The only time I go onto the big ring is to get a bit of downhill speed up, and again, commuting that's not really an issue (just fun).

    Hmmm. The more and more I think about it... 8 speed internal with a single ring up front... Birthday coming up...

    Posted 14 years ago #

  7. chdot
    Admin

    Of course you know you could have a 3 speed fixed (hub) - but eight would be a better range.

    Crucial thing is to work out gearing of gears you do use.

    In 1965 the Edinburgh to London record was broken on a 3 speed.

    Posted 14 years ago #

  8. LaidBack
    Member

    Really just sorting out ring and sprocket size. Then decide whether SRAM or Shimano get the business. Need to keep chain tight. Of course you can run wider chain too.

    Posted 14 years ago #

  9. chdot
    Admin

    SEE ALSO

    http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=617&page=2#post-5159

    Posted 14 years ago #

  10. wee folding bike
    Member

    Or Sturmey Archer.

    Do you have long drop outs on the frame you intend to use?

    Posted 14 years ago #

  11. Wilmington's Cow
    Member

    No, vertical drop-outs - I was envisaging having a chain tensioner on there?

    Posted 14 years ago #

  12. Wilmington's Cow
    Member

    (and because of that not going for one of the 'fixed hub' options)

    Posted 14 years ago #

  13. chdot
    Admin

    "No, vertical drop-outs - I was envisaging having a chain tensioner on there?"

    Just use a normal short arm derailleur.

    Posted 14 years ago #

  14. wee folding bike
    Member

    Yes, you will probably need one. That's one reason why I haven't put a hub gear on my old mountain bike. It doesn't have a back wheel of any kind just now so it's up for grabs but it would need a tensioner.

    Rohloff ones are spendy, Shimano is more reasonable:

    http://www.sjscycles.co.uk/product-Shimano-Shimano-Alfine-CT-S510-Chain-Tensioner--Silver-21763.htm

    Posted 14 years ago #

  15. Dave
    Member

    It's somewhat ironic that it costs more to get a tensioner than an entire mech! Still, that's fashion for you I suppose (plus, if the tensioner works on 1/8th chain, it would be much better than the mech option).

    Eight gears will almost certainly be fine - my third choice commuter (the MTB) has no rear shifter so I've jammed it onto a midrange cog for the time being. I can get around town quite nicely on a chainset 3 speed!

    (Of course it is agonisingly slow if you're in a hurry, but that has more to do with the bike than the gearing).

    Posted 14 years ago #

  16. chdot
    Admin

    "(plus, if the tensioner works on 1/8th chain, it would be much better than the mech option)."

    I'm assuming Anth will retain existing front rings(s) which will be 3/32". If he gets something else then MUCH more choice with 3/32".

    Posted 14 years ago #

  17. gembo
    Member

    Shimano replacing Nexus 8 with Alfine. Alfine has a dust cover and a proper seal. Why the nexus 8 didn't have these is curious and of course annoying for me. The Rohloff 14 speed internal hub apparently takes a year to break it in? That might just be rumour was £625 about 5 years ago just for the hub.

    Posted 14 years ago #

  18. LaidBack
    Member

    Alfine seems not bad as long as you ease off at change point.

    Circe use a modified drop out with tensioning bolts as the same frame is shared with derailleur models.

    Worth having look at Anth.

    Rohloff does take time to break in. One on my 'other' tandem is stiff to change but that's more to do with cable length.

    Posted 14 years ago #

  19. amir
    Member

    I've got Alfine gears - plenty of range for commuting around Edinburgh. They're great for winter - much less cleaning. But in summer it would be nice to have something lighter and quicker - and so I sometimes go in on my racer. My hub-geared bike has a eccentric bottom bracket.

    Posted 14 years ago #

  20. chdot
    Admin

    eccentric bottom bracket - not to be confused with eccentric bottom.

    I suspect you have something like a Surly.

    What are the advantages in theory/practice over conventional horizontal dropouts?

    Posted 14 years ago #

  21. Dave
    Member

    You can run 1/8th chain on 3/32nd rings/cogs, as the pitch of the chain is identical either way. So if you had newish rings you didn't want to swap out, they would still work until they wore down normally.

    Thinking about it though, you'd have to use a tensioner rather than re-using a rear mech, so it might not be worth the hassle. I did always get way more life out of the 1/8th stuff on my Pearson though (in fact, it's still on the original cogs/chainset after about 6000 miles, with no sign of wear).

    Posted 14 years ago #

  22. Wilmington's Cow
    Member

    Planning on a new single chainring up front, so can go for either 1/8 or 3/32. It'll be the 'dreich and worse' weather bike - probably still fixed wheel it on the nice days (such as this morning) - rack and guards just really aren't going to happen on that frame.

    Need to pick a hub, and a rim, and then call up on an offer made a wee while back to show me how to build a wheel. I actually sorted a buckle, not completely, but enough that the wheel wasn't banging on the rod brakes anymore, yesterday for the first time - it's the first time the method has ever 'clicked' with me).

    p.s. got a spare chain tensioner in the parts drawer...

    Posted 14 years ago #

  23. amir
    Member

    "eccentric bottom bracket - not to be confused with eccentric bottom.

    I suspect you have something like a Surly.

    What are the advantages in theory/practice over conventional horizontal dropouts? "

    Not sure - suspect that taking the back wheel off is easier. I have a Bianchi Camaleonte - formerly a nice "celeste" colour.

    Posted 14 years ago #

  24. wee folding bike
    Member

    Does the eccentric fit a normal size BB shell?

    Posted 14 years ago #

  25. amir
    Member

    "Does the eccentric fit a normal size BB shell? "

    No - don't think so. In fact I think that a normal BB will fit in an eccentric - I hope so since I am sure I will have to replace mine at some point.

    Posted 14 years ago #

  26. chdot
    Admin

    "Does the eccentric fit a normal size BB shell? "

    It'll be similar to many tandems.

    So it's bigger with a normal BB fitting inside.

    http://www.sheldonbrown.com/gloss_e-f.html

    Posted 14 years ago #

  27. chdot
    Admin

    Hub gears catching on in America too -

    http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=512

    Does that mean they are trendy??

    Posted 14 years ago #

  28. wee folding bike
    Member

    So I'm ahead of the curve again. I've been using hub gears since 2001.

    Posted 14 years ago #

  29. chdot
    Admin

    "I've been using hub gears since 2001."

    Amateur

    Posted 14 years ago #

  30. wee folding bike
    Member

    Well they used to be mince or at least on mince bikes like Choppers and Commandos. I had a sensible single speed roadster in those days.

    I'm sure Morrisey had the AM in mind when he "crashed down on the crossbar".

    They have improved a lot in quality and choice in the last 10 years.

    Posted 14 years ago #

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