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CityCyclingEdinburgh Forum » Events, rides etc.
#pop28 triumph
(52 posts)-
Posted 12 years ago #
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Thanks for this Dave - I've taken it as the media report that never was, and forwarded it to my MP and MSPs, particularly for those that weren't present!
Robert
Posted 12 years ago # -
"What next for cycling in Scotland? Get out on your bike. Join Spokes even though you still can’t do it online"
Maybe the POP-spokes coalition could be pressurised to finally convinced spokes that they need to allow on-line membership!
Posted 12 years ago # -
"Maybe the POP-spokes coalition could be pressurised to finally convinced spokes that they need to allow on-line membership! "
Hear hear
Posted 12 years ago # -
Well said Dave.
Posted 12 years ago # -
Shamefully I'm not (yet) a Spokes member either. I've looked at it numerous times but since I don't have envelopes and stamps lying around, there's a significant barrier to entry.
Perhaps I should be suggesting a solution rather than complaining about it though!
Posted 12 years ago # -
"they need to allow on-line membership"
The problem isn't 'technical'.
DDF has been involved in computing longer than 99% of the people on this forum.
I think Spokes likes the idea of always being able to say it has "about 1000 members".
I know there are genuine issues about attracting too many students and keeping up with changes of address.
In turn there are issues about more members = more envelopes to stuff and deliver several times a year.
Spokes tends to put all sorts of other people's printed material with its mail outs, so sending 'everything' by email would be a major culture shift (or impossible).
Spokes (as far as I know) doesn't want to charge membership - it always reckoned that 'donations' raised slightly more money.
That said -
I think Spokes needs to accept membership on-line, use PayPal etc.
They need to deal with any downsides and take advantage of the upsides.
Posted 12 years ago # -
Does anyone know how spokes actually works? I presumed that once I became a member, I'd be invited to stuff, but I only ever get invites to hustings and public meetings. Not that i actually want to go to more meetings/take on more work, but I have never belonged to such an untransparent organization (which does such good work).
Posted 12 years ago # -
Just for clarity my "Well said Dave." Wasn't a dig at spokes but a general agreement with the whole article.
Posted 12 years ago # -
"Incredibly, the crowd was so large that it was still leaving the Meadows when the lead elements arrived on the grass outside Parliament!"
Posted 12 years ago # -
I like "the media report that never was". Perhaps it should be my byline :)
Hadn't thought of linking it to anyone (other than my comrades in arms here) - more for personal satisfaction you know! May pop it in today's marathon WriteToThem sessions though.
Posted 12 years ago # -
"Does anyone know how spokles actually works?"
Yes.
One or two (or slightly) more) people do.
(I'm not one of them).
I have no desire to be involved in a discussion about how/why/what Spokes does - and by implication well or less well.
If you study the small print( literally) on a Spokes leaflet you will see a list of working groups on various topics. Anyone can ask to join. I have no idea how many people do and what happens.
A small number of people do a LOT of work and have done for MANY years.
Spokes was founded before the notion of transparency was applied to organisations.
I am not criticising Spokes. Any organisation can do things differently - better is NOT a given!
As far as I know it's survived/thrived because it's generally accepted that whatever works works.
I think that now is a good time to look at cycle campaigning (in Scotland) generally, especialli in the light of another new non/organisation (POP).
There are always 'too many' cycling organisations. As long as they have a purpose, and don't waste time fighting each other or empire buildings, it's all fine.
I'm not suggesting that either POP or Spokes have or would fight or empire build.
Now is an ideal time for co-operations, alliances and maintaining momentums...
Posted 12 years ago # -
Does anyone know how spokes actually works? I presumed that once I became a member, I'd be invited to stuff, but I only ever get invites to hustings and public meetings.
As chdot says, it's about putting yourself forward for things when you join (or renew your membership once a year). Personally I don't have the time for lots of meetings, so I have never joined any of the working groups. I do however help with delivering the Spokes newsletter in my local area 3 or 4 times a year.
I think Spokes runs really well considering it is all done by volunteers. It seems to me to be an excellent example of an 'adhocracy': ie. things get done by the people who have the time, energy and determination to get them done. It's really that simple. There seems to be none of the endless wrangling over constitutional points and organisational structures that bedevils some other voluntary or political organisations. I see that as a positive aspect!
If you really want to find out how Spokes works, JOIN. Stamps, envelopes, etc. can be purchased from most post offices and some shops I believe. :-) Also remember that PayPal charge a commission on money sent (maybe an exemption for charities, but I'm not sure whether Spokes is in fact a charity - that's another set of regulatory constraints to deal with).
Posted 12 years ago # -
Great stuff, Dave.
Posted 12 years ago # -
I wouldn't like to make it seem like I'm criticising Spokes, since I haven't done anything to volunteer to improve it - but there's no doubt in my mind that grassroots campaigning is going to gather broader support when you can just fill in a form, rather than print something off and go down the local post office (if it hasn't been shut due to the cuts).
Posted 12 years ago # -
PS there's so much wrong with the bike on Mark's poster that I've just noticed and am enjoying :)
Posted 12 years ago # -
It is hard to make a decision about whether to join (or offer to join) a working group when one doesn't know what they do, when or how.
I quite take crow-river's points about it working and not getting bogged down etc. very true, but still doesn't resolve the baffling blackbox factor.
Posted 12 years ago # -
Edinburgh cycling would not be what it is today if it were not for Spokes. The organisation, however, it is run, has been run has worked hard campaigning for things. That said it is Edinburgh based and has enough for it's volunteers to contend with trying to get things done here. The POP was a huge success on Saturday but steady hard core, roots campaigning, needs to go on if this is not to be a flash in the pan. Sustaining the momentum is key. The people who set up Spokes 30-odd years ago are not as young as they used to be and there is something to be said for youthful exuberance. Negotiations with Sustrans/Spokes/CEC and BR or train companies, have made the network paths in Edinburgh what they are today, and hats off to them. How they keep/sustain/attract new members seems to work and long may that last.
Posted 12 years ago # -
grassroots campaigning is going to gather broader support when you can just fill in a form, rather than print something off and go down the local post office
Maybe, but if people can't be bothered to go and buy stamps and envelopes, then what is the quality of their support going to be like?* My view is that organisations like Spokes need active supporters who will be prepared to do dull things like stuffing envelopes; cycling round delivering newsletters (actually quite enjoyable I find); and writing letters/emails to Councillors, MSPs, MPs, planning officers, quangoes, etc. etc.
I actually like that you have to do a (fairly minimal) task above just clicking on a PayPal link to join. I can't see it as a barrier, more a tiny hurdle. If that's too much to ask, then I'd suggest active campaigning is going to be beyond that prospective member.
* Current company excepted.
Posted 12 years ago # -
* Current company excepted.
The above rather makes the point, doesn't it?
Out of interest, am I the only person who uses WriteToThem but isn't currently a Spokes member?
Posted 12 years ago # -
A few Spokes comments...
a. The two postings from @crowriver are spot on!!
b. @srd - the reason you've never been invited to stuffing meetings is that to do so you need to tick at least 2 of the 3 boxes A,B and H on your membership form - you only ticked H (stuffing). Basically we normally have very roughly the right number of people turning up at stuffings (20 or so) and the house can't take many more. So we need people who have the time to both stuff AND deliver (H and A) and we don't need more of those who can offer H only.
c. @crowriver is very correct that spokes is more concerned to have members willing to DO things (e.g. contacting their own politicians) rather than just trying to maximise the size of membership. It's very easy to be really enthusiastic but never actually get round to doing anything, and Spokes really prizes those members who do manage it occasionally! Politicians would be no more impressed if spokes said it had 3000 members than its present ~1000; they would be impressed if they got 30 emails instead of 10!!
d. Re: online joining - coincidentally, we had a meeting about that last week and will probably have another in a couple of months or so. The current system works very well but won't last for ever. One of the vital criteria for any new system is to have a volunteer who is genuinely likely to be in Edinburgh for the forseeable future, genuinely with enough spare time/ enthusiasm, knowledgeable about online databases, able to write a system which someone else could take over if necessary, etc, etc - i.e. maximum reliability, robustness, etc. We have that to a fair extent with the present offline Access database.
Posted 12 years ago # -
"
One of the vital criteria for any new system is to have a volunteer who is genuinely likely to be in Edinburgh for the forseeable future, genuinely with enough spare time/ enthusiasm, knowledgeable about online databases, able to write a system which someone else could take over if necessary, etc, etc - i.e. maximum reliability, robustness, etc. We have that to a fair extent with the present offline Access database.
"
There are LOTS of IT people on CCE.
No idea if any of them meet the other (vital) criteria.
Posted 12 years ago # -
thanks DDF, and yes, I did know most of what chdot, crowriver, and you explained. but does your reply mean that policy/decisions are made at 'stuffing' meetings?
I guess my final point would be that it is difficult to take a decision about which boxes to tick, without knowing more about how they are done and who does them. In other orgs, this becomes clear because you are circulated info about who does what, sometimes even minutes of meetings!
but of course, I also join the chorus of 'it works' - it works very very well and if it is sustainable, then all the better.
Posted 12 years ago # -
Dave - I use write to them (or just email them direct), but am a spokes member (although I have now failed to return my renewal form...)
Posted 12 years ago # -
@Dave - no I use writetothem all the time and am not a Spokes member.
Have just written a large message to councillors and MSPs as a condition someone gave me of downloading and printing their shot of me and Tigermoth[1]
Quite how they tagged me I do not know as they're not a CCE'er and hail fae Dundee I think they said... maybe they found me in other shots of mine from searching but I'm not in my own photos... It's all fun thoughPosted 12 years ago # -
I'm sure my comment about online joining is not (and nobody has taken as) a criticism of Spokes in general :)
Should have known better than to blend two points in one topic!
Posted 12 years ago # -
Spokes does a wonderful job, which is why I am a member. Like SRD, I have overlooked the renewal. A quicker means of payment would have made this less likely.
DdF - surely one of the upsides of having a larger membership is that the organisation would have more money. Isn't that good?
Posted 12 years ago # -
Reply back from Councillor Andrew Burns, he couldn't make it to the ride but he has already signed the manifesto.
And Sarah Boyack MSP who attended.
Both impressed with turnout and strength of message conveyed.Posted 12 years ago # -
Maybe on topic? One thing that is a bit strange is how little uni students do to campaign for better cycling: There's relevant societies (such as P&P) and lots of cyclists! I wonder how SPOKES could get them campaigning? Maybe offer to do a talk or something at a society meeting? I go along to the Uni Amnesty International Society's letter writing each week, so there's lots of people wanting to campaign!
One thing I like about SPOKES is the paper newsletters, I feel I'm far more likely to read them than I am if they appear in my inbox. I wonder if it's worth continuing to post the newsletters to people even well after their membership's lapsed (or even those who never have had membership!).
I'm always motivated by the end of reading them to sit down and write another letter to my Councillors/MSPs/MPs!(back on topic!) Well done to the organisers of POP28. I am still amazed by the number of people you managed to reach. What do you think was most important? Word of Mouth? Posters? Fliers/on bikes or in cycle shops? Internet forums? Blogs? Other?
(finally!) I don't think I can wait a year for the next POP. What about in 6 months?! How can we get more directly involved? Where/when do the core organisers meet?! What do we need to do in the meantime to keep up the pressure?
Posted 12 years ago # -
Spokes - students -- last time DdF and I spoke about online membership / age profile of spokes members and related things, I got the impression that spokes could do without large numbers of student members, because they moved around, etc etc. That is of course, different from people like you who want to DO STUFF.
Posted 12 years ago #
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