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What should I do?

(40 posts)

Started 12 years ago by Greenroofer
Latest reply from Instography
poll: What would you do?
Keep the bike and get a dynamo hub : (5 votes)

42 %

Get a shiny new bike to replace it : (1 votes)

8 %

Keep it and use your C2W money to buy a Brompton : (6 votes)

50 %

12 votes

Tags:

raleigh pioneer replacement

12 Next »

Greenroofer
Member
OK. I've got a Raleigh Pioneer Elite 2. It's my only bike, and I've not got room for more. I got it through C2W, and it cost about £700.

A bit like the story of my grandfather's axe, it's not actually the bike I bought any more. To turn it from the pile of junk it was when I got it to my daily commuter bike, it's had...
- New saddle
- New handlebars
- New mudguards
- New rack
- New tyres
- New Shimano hydraulic brakes front and rear
- New pedals
- New chain tensioner
- New spokes in the rear wheel
- New bottom bracket
If you're not yet bored senseless and are keeping count, you'll realise that's actually quite a lot of the bike.

James at Pedals has been politely rude about the quality of the front wheel. The spokes are all seized, and it's not worth repairing. It also needs a new drive train soon.

In a couple of months it will have done its three years (and 7,000 miles) and I could get a replacement C2W bike. Alternatively, I could keep it and just get a new front wheel (which I could get a dynamo built into).

So, technical question first, what life do you expect out of an aluminium frame. Am I anywhere close to it? How about the Alfine hub?

Next, philosophical question. Given that money's not the problem (i.e. I could get another C2W bike) should I do that or keep the current one which is now, finally, sorted? Have you had any bad experiences disposing of a trusty steed and finding its replacement was never quite as good?
Posted 12 years ago #
chdot
Admin

Well it doesn't look three years old - and most of it isn't!

EDIT Oh that's a 'catalogue' pic!

'Money isn't a problem' - in the sense that you don't have to find a lump sum upfront.

But you'd still be paying more money than if you kept existing bike.

Unless you really don't like a lot about your current bike (and you really have no room to store two) I'd hang on to it.

Posted 12 years ago #
steveo
Member

Yeah if you've spent time getting just how you like replacing it it's just going to be annoying. Get a dynamo front wheel, well worth having. Get a brompton, well worth having

Posted 12 years ago #
crowriver
Member

Keep it.

My Specialized Globe Vienna 2 is coming up for 3 years this month, still going strong. Has had various bits added*, but haven't had to replace anything except the chain** so far.

* - mudguards, bar end mirrors, front rack, lights, bottle cages, steering damper (subsequently removed), various child seat attaching points, trailer hitch.

** - not counting a spare (2nd hand) winterised wheelset with studded tyres, and brake blocks. I have spare cables and a cassette handy in case they need replacing, probably this year sometime...

Posted 12 years ago #
wingpig
Member

My aluminium frame is seven years old and quite happy. The paint's a bit flaked and crackled here and there but it's not as if it's going to rust.

Posted 12 years ago #
kaputnik
Moderator

I find there's something nice about it being "your" bike once you've replaced lots of bits on it. Ultimately you could even replace the frame and bolt all the other bits onto another frame (I've done that twice with bikes) and following the law of Trigger's broom, it's still your same bike :)

Posted 12 years ago #
Smudge
Member

+1 for Kaputnik's suggestion, my mtb and my tourer were built this was, change upgrade things as you go then get a decent frame to hang all the nice bits from, you end up with a good condition bike with the setup that suits what you use it for and not what the marketing dept imagines you need.

Also, less importantly, when asked what it is you can casually reply "oh that? It's a custom build, I'm afraid you can't buy one off the shelf" ;-)

Posted 12 years ago #
gembo
Member

If your C2W lets you out now [instead of remaining in until HMRC decree now worthless] you should take advantage of the deal and get another bike. If no space then folder [such as Brompton] or one designed to be stored in bits - Moulton.

Posted 12 years ago #
Dave
Member

C2W now is "just" an interest free loan, effectively, and while that's no bad thing, it's not as if you can get a steal on a new bike any more. You could use it as an easy way to finance a Brompton of course.

I'd just replace the wheel with a dynamo one. I've never looked back from mine (which is also a weatherproof drum brake - you would have issues swapping to your winter wheels if you did that however).

Posted 12 years ago #
Instography
Member

Interest free loan with a substantial contribution from the tax man, with the added (scandalous) irony that the more tax you pay, the bigger the contribution Mr Osborne makes.

Posted 12 years ago #
Uberuce
Member

I've ridden an SA drum brake bike a few times and was very impressed by them, and although I'm not so hugely fond of the treacle-bath effect of the 1976 bottle dynamo on my old iron horse, I do love the fact I can't forget them or run out of batteries. Dave managed to ride the Paper Bike around town for hours unaware that he had the hub dynamo on, so I guess they're a teeeny bit more efficient than my shiny old bottle.

I'd say go for the dynamo/drum and if you've need of mixed-mode then bag the Brom on C2W.

Posted 12 years ago #
cc
Member

My Specialized was maybe 15 years old when one day the front forks snapped off while it was having tyre surgery. But I did weigh about 18 stone at the time.

Posted 12 years ago #
Dave
Member

The wife is currently finishing up C2W and, taking the fair market value repayment into account, she's pretty much paid the shop's cash price. I think there might be a small balance in her favour (on a £1000 voucher) but not enough that I personally would bother with the paperwork.

Used to be that you paid gross + £5 against the exc. VAT price of the bike and that was it. Happy memories!

Cyclescheme might not be representative of all C2W of course.

Posted 12 years ago #
Darkerside
Member

I'm also underwhelmed by how much I saved with Cyclescheme, but it did enable me to get a grands worth of bike at a time when I couldn't afford the lump sum, so it served its purpose.

Another vote for just keep changing bits until bike nirvana is reached. Re drag on hub dynamos, road.cc reviewed the supernova one where you can turn the electric gubbins on and off, and suggested the drag was effectively unnoticable unless you're averaging out over a very long ride.

Posted 12 years ago #
gembo
Member

The council C2W scheme is better model, followed by some other employers. you get the same deal as before on the before tax saving. At the end of the 18 months when you have paid off the money you then stay in the scheme for a further five years. No payment but no further C2W deals. at the end of this period the bike is deemed to have no market value and you get it for nominal payment. Seems C2W was being exploited by shady n+1 types to acquire more and more bikes rather than getting drivers to switch to cycling. Well that is certainly how I used it.

Posted 12 years ago #
kaputnik
Moderator

I'm often only reminded that I have my dynamo and light on around town when I get a Warden Hodges-like "PUT THAT LIGHT OUT!" yell from someone.

Posted 12 years ago #
crowriver
Member

Has had various bits added*, but haven't had to replace anything except the chain** so far.

Actually that's not true, had to replace the stock Specialized Nimbus tyres after just a year, as they suddenly kept getting p*******s shortly after doing Edinburgh-St Andrews. Schwalbe Marathon Pluses since then, still going strong, loads of tread left, same inner tubes for 2 years! Cannot recommend these tyres highly enough.

Also replaced the standard bar grips with some fancier dual density locking ones. Just an upgrade really, the old ones were okay.

Posted 12 years ago #
recombodna
Member

I've found specialized tyres to be mince in general. Have had 3 pairs crack and spilt in under a year.

Posted 12 years ago #
Tom
Member

gembo: "C2W was being exploited by shady n+1 types to acquire more and more bikes rather than getting drivers to switch to cycling"

Ha! My colleague at my previous employer was featured in the C2W year 2 brochure; smily photo and caption. She found the money for the scheme by quitting the union and only ever used it to cycle to work once.

recombodna: +1 for Specialized tyres, the Turbo Pro's are the most gripless tyres I've ever used in the wet.

Posted 12 years ago #
Instography
Member

@Dave
Was it not set up as a salary sacrifice? Mine is so I'm getting, in effect, a 40% discount because my gross earnings are reduced so I don't pay tax on that (George pays that bit of the bike). I'm paying 60% of the value of the bike over 12 months (interest free).

Smudge is right, it was a scam. And now is only a scam, a tax dodge, over a longer period.

When I put it that way I'm ashamed of myself.

Posted 12 years ago #
wee folding bike
Member

Brompton.

I used to cycle most places but the Brompton makes it even easier. You don't need to worry about leaving it outside the pictures or restaurant, you can stick it in the car if you need to, I can put two in the roof box. They're easy to take on holiday when you might not otherwise have a bike with you. As you may have seen on Saturday they are perfectly capable of hauling a couple of kids. The older CarryFreedom hitch even let the back wheel fold but I don't have that kind.

They are also nice wee bikes to ride. I choose to use a Brompton even when I don't have to.

Posted 12 years ago #
crowriver
Member

Smudge is right, it was a scam. And now is only a scam, a tax dodge, over a longer period.

When I put it that way I'm ashamed of myself.

Don't beat yourself up. C2W is a drop in the ocean compared to what company car drivers (used to?) get away with.

Posted 12 years ago #
chdot
Admin

Scam?

All things are relative...

When it all first began it was widely touted as 'half price bikes'.

This was only the case if you were a high rate taxpayer.

There was always the slightly worrying bit about your employer selling you the bike for its 'fair market value'.

For some reason that was 'accepted' as 5%. This was so good that it was almost inevitable that HMRC would restrict it in some way.

Posted 12 years ago #
Smudge
Member

"Smudge is right, it was a scam. And now is only a scam, a tax dodge, over a longer period."

What's really scary is that I don't remember saying that... old age doesn't come alone! :-o

Scam is perhaps a little strong, it was a tax dodge, the sort of thing those set above us have long enjoyed, so I see no reason for anyone to feel guilt for using it. HRMC knew exactly what they were doing when they made the rules imho.
Now it's less attractive but has nonetheless been extremely good for putting many people on "decent" bikes and in that shown untold thousands the advantages of a reasonable quality bike.

Posted 12 years ago #
gembo
Member

I think the intention was to get people from car to bike. Largely used to buy bikes and must have increased bike use in some instances from zero to at least once? The principal use of the bike [dependent on interpretation] was to get you to work. What transpired was more of a perk. Not a scam, that is too hard. HMRC sniff out perks and adjust as they see fit.

I hope the shady ex-colleague at Tom's work rejoined the union after she paid off her bike? Shady lady.

Posted 12 years ago #
cc
Member

Not a scam, more a state subsidy for your bike. Which is a thoroughly good idea.

Posted 12 years ago #
SRD
Moderator

It is a scam if you buy a MTB and then walk to work, as a colleague of mine does.

Posted 12 years ago #
Instography
Member

Ah, no, it was gembo not smudge. Sorry both. OK, it's not a scam (in the sense that it perfectly legitimate under existing tax rules (as is Amazon's non-payment of corporation tax)) but even having availed myself of it to buy my fifth bike I still think it is a bit ridiculous that since the subsidy comes from your marginal tax rate, the highest subsidy goes to people who need it least.

Posted 12 years ago #
chdot
Admin

"It is a scam if you buy a MTB and then never use it to commute"

Think we're in the realms of semantics here.

That could be seen as abuse. It would be a scam if HMRC set the thing up knowing that would happen.

Not sure scam is the right word, but in 'changing the way people travel' sense the subsidy for electric cars is worse.

"good for putting many people on "decent" bikes and in that shown untold thousands the advantages of a reasonable quality bike"

I think that is undoubtedly true. Maybe even people on here.

It could be argued that subsidising people's £1,000 hobbies is 'unfair', but I think that this scheme has brought 'new' people into cycling - especially commuting.

Some no longer drive to work (at least as often) and are very likely to be car owners/drivers and be part of the growing number not willing to tolerate the bully mentality of those drivers who still believe cyclists shouldn't be on the bit of road in front of them because they haven't paid anything towards it.

Posted 12 years ago #
chdot
Admin

"the highest subsidy goes to people who need it least"

That is certainly true in terms of 'fairness', but there are many ways in which the tax system isn't fair.

Most people don't think it's fair to reduce the top rate of tax - even if the Government turns out to be right about more money being raised from 'the rich' through other new taxes.

It's perhaps not 'fair' that you can only take part if your employer is willing to do some paperwork - or are forced to buy a bike in a particular month for the convenience of the accounts department.

It would be nice if the Government sent everyone a £100 bicycle voucher on their birthday - but that would be open to abuse.

Posted 12 years ago #

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