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"New bus lane cameras ‘causing road chaos’ "

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  1. Instography
    Member

    @Greenroofer
    I'm confused. You seem to say any vehicle designed for more than 8 passengers can use a bus lane but you finish off by saying that that this doesn't include private hire cars. Yet you agree with cb.

    cb's point was that any vehicle with more than 8 seats, including private hire cars with more than 8 seats, could use the bus lanes.

    I suppose it's a question of which takes priority. I would have thought that if you take a vehicle and register it as a private hire car you enjoy both the privileges and limitations of that registration regardless of the number seats. You don't get to flip between being a bus and a PHC depending on which rules suit you at that moment.

    Posted 12 years ago #

  2. chdot
    Admin

    "
    A COUNCIL crackdown on the illegal use of bus lanes descended into farce today after it emerged that a motorist was fined for driving in a Greenway before the enforcement period even began.

    "

    http://www.scotsman.com/edinburgh-evening-news/transport/driver-gets-buslane-fine-before-enforcement-period-started-1-2293487

    Posted 12 years ago #

  3. wingpig
    Member

    I assume she has GPS data showing that she immediately swerved out of the bus lane so that she wasn't still in it three seconds later.

    Neil Greig, director of policy at the Institute of Advanced Motorists, said "It is just unbelievable... This is exactly the sort of thing that will undermine public confidence in the system."

    That and inflammatory headlines from the EEN.

    Posted 12 years ago #

  4. Wilmington's Cow
    Member

    *sigh*

    So, Ms Motorist, simply write your appeal, showing the time on your notice of your fine, et voila you don't have to pay it.

    I love the fact as well that the EEN complains that drivers are facing a 2 and a half week wait before getting the notices, and so could be racking up fines without knowing it. Let's reiterate here how you go about not 'racking up fines'... DON'T DRIVE IN THE BUS LANE WHEN YOU'RE NOT SUPPOSED TO. I think that's clear enough isn't it?

    It's hardly 'descended into farce' - the EEN really is like a dog with a bone here, turning into more and more of a mini-Daily Wail rag every day.

    I love the fact though that she was told she'd have to be in it for at least ten seconds before a camera will record it, but she's 'sure' she wasn't in the lane that long.

    Posted 12 years ago #

  5. wingpig
    Member

    No comments on that one too. Let's hope it's a deliberate decision to reduce the amount of froth obscuring any actual news, rather than just a means of reducing server traffic and saving on hosting costs.

    Posted 12 years ago #

  6. crowriver
    Member

    I note she was driving a 4x4, too. Hardly a 'car', more like an urban tank. It's not as if she even needed to be in the lane either: the road is empty! Honestly some motorists are just 'at it', aren't they?

    If this is the best the chipwrapper can come up with, then I think the boost to the Council's coffers from fines is safe enough for the time being.

    Posted 12 years ago #

  7. Wilmington's Cow
    Member

    Saw the real life paper EEN at lunchtime. This is the Front Page splash! Nothing else on there!

    Posted 12 years ago #

  8. cb
    Member

    I have to say, she's a bit brave going into a bus lane with three seconds to go. I usually pull out at 7.29 on my car clock to be on the safe side.

    Non-story aspect of this aside, I still think it's a bit rubbish of the cooncil.

    Posted 12 years ago #

  9. Wilmington's Cow
    Member

    Have to admit, on Saturday I drove in one near me as my watch said it was after 6.30pm. Then saw the car clock at 6.29pm. So I may get my own notice through the door.

    And if I do I'll go running to the Evening News to complain about just how unfair it is*

    *or I may just pay up and realise and recognise my mistake

    It certainly is a bit rubbish of the Council, and the systems should have been thoroughly tested and vetted (looks like something has been missing along the line) but by eck the EEN are making a meal of it all. And as far as the ABD guy talking abotu the 'stress' of an appeal, it's a simple case of writing a covering letter, and I think we can all agree that an appeal based on a photo from the Council itself that shows the fine was issued for a period of time that the cameras should have been inactive is an appeal that will succeed immediately.

    Posted 12 years ago #

  10. cb
    Member

    "So I may get my own notice through the door."

    I hope you're practising your sad face for the EEN picture.

    Posted 12 years ago #

  11. cb
    Member

    "And as far as the ABD guy talking abotu the 'stress' of an appeal"

    It was actually the IAM, but I assumed ABD as I read it.

    Posted 12 years ago #

  12. Wilmington's Cow
    Member

    Ah, yeah, I saw initials and read the comment and immediately thoguht it was the ABD... Hmmm, IAM are usually a bit more reasonable!

    Posted 12 years ago #

  13. steveo
    Member

    Part of me wants to be caught at about 1825 and when the fine comes in appeal it based on the fact there are no clocks on the signs and claim my clock read 1831 just out of sheer devilment.

    Posted 12 years ago #

  14. Kirst
    Member

    Oh the huge manatee.

    Posted 12 years ago #

  15. Wilmington's Cow
    Member

    Please tell me that originated as the world's greatest autocorrect Kirst...

    Posted 12 years ago #

  16. Kirst
    Member

    Sadly not :-D

    Posted 12 years ago #

  17. gembo
    Member

    Did I already say that I think the enforcement is working - bus lanes only have bikes and buses in them. Also I am veeery law abiding since my warning

    Posted 12 years ago #

  18. Greenroofer
    Member

    @ Instography: my flippant comment at the end was poorly worded. My interpretation of the position (no lawyer, I) is that if a PHC had more than 8 passenger seats it would be perfectly entitled to use the bus lane.

    Posted 12 years ago #

  19. Greenroofer
    Member

    I queried the CEC website description of who was allowed to use bus lanes, as referenced by kaputnik ages ago.

    They have written back as follows. I think this counts as advice from an expert:

    Thank you for your e-mail regarding the Bus Lane Camera Enforcement webpage and the bus lane signs.

    Please note that our website does not state 'service buses' or that they alone can use Bus Lanes in Edinburgh. The relevant Traffic Regulation Orders (TRO) refer to public service vehicles (PSV) as defined by the Public Passenger Vehicles Act 1981. This definition does not distinguish between service or any other buses. While the webpage lists two examples of local service buses these are the main operators in the city, but it is not an exhaustive list.

    You are correct when you say that with the omission of the word 'local' this allows any vehicle which can carry more than eight passengers to use bus lanes in Edinburgh. Therefore, it is considered that both the bus lane signs and the website are correct. However, I have amended the psv listing to say 'for example' to help indicate other buses are allowed.

    Kind Regards

    XXXX
    Traffic Orders & Project Development Assistant
    Parking Operations
    The City of Edinburgh Council

    Posted 12 years ago #

  20. Instography
    Member

    OK. Thanks.

    Posted 12 years ago #

  21. Wilmington's Cow
    Member

    Nice that they signed off the letter with kisses.

    Posted 12 years ago #

  22. chdot
    Admin

    "Police say cab driver can use buslane but council wants £1600"

    http://www.scotsman.com/edinburgh-evening-news/transport/police-say-cab-driver-can-use-buslane-but-council-wants-1600-1-2295520

    Posted 12 years ago #

  23. crowriver
    Member

    It's that 8 seats in total vs. 8 seats for passengers marginal thing.

    Why these folk feel the need to go moaning to the chipwrapper I'm not sure. Maybe they knew they were technically breaking the rules but thought they'd chance their arm? Double your chances of successful appeal by making a song and dance in the media? This country gets more like the US every minute...

    Posted 12 years ago #

  24. chdot
    Admin

    http://www.scotsman.com/edinburgh-evening-news/transport/bus-lane-and-cameras-add-up-to-a-left-turn-for-worse-1-2297671

    Posted 12 years ago #

  25. Wilmington's Cow
    Member

    My father in law lives on that street. Can't say I've ever had a problem making that 'hard left' and felt unsafe...

    As for, "Local councillor Stefan Tymkewycz, a member of the city’s new coalition administration, has joined residents’ calls for the camera to be moved to avoid penalising families", it is, however, fine to penalise single OAPs, child free couples, widows and widowers etc etc etc. WTF?

    Posted 12 years ago #

  26. SRD
    Moderator

    "This country gets more like the US every minute..." ?

    Posted 12 years ago #

  27. Min
    Member

    "The woman said she had attempted to take a sharp left hand turn to avoid the edges of the bus lane but that it was unsafe especially with a child in the back"

    Eh? In what way is it unsafe? Because you can't use your wing mirrors properly? How does the child prevent you from doing that?

    Posted 12 years ago #

  28. crowriver
    Member

    @SRD, specifically in realtion to the last sentence. Trying to use the media to influence an appeal. Not very stereotypical 'stiff upper lip' nor 'dour acceptance of life's ups and downs'.

    Posted 12 years ago #

  29. crowriver
    Member

    Stefan Tymkewycz can go hang. I can't imagine his populist posturing is going to play well with the Labour transport convener.

    It can technically be accessed from Willowbrae Road without crossing the bus lane but it requires a “hard left” turn which they believe to be unsafe.

    Translation from righteous-indignation-speak: resident's poor driving skills and flagrant disregard for the Highway Code mean they keep breaking the law instead of executing a simple left turn correctly.

    Time for a mass resit of the driving tests for local residents perhaps? If you can't manage a simple left turn, well really you shouldn't be on the road.

    Posted 12 years ago #

  30. SRD
    Moderator

    @crowriver Maybe I don't read the equiv papers in the US, or watch the trashy daytime TV shows, but I can't think of any instances of this in the parts of the US I spend time in.

    Posted 12 years ago #

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