CityCyclingEdinburgh was launched on the 27th of October 2009 as "an experiment".
IT’S TRUE!
CCE is 15years old!
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RULES No personal insults. No swearing.
Well I think that making a left hand turn from a right hand lane isn't actually all that safe; certainly not as safe as making a lane change to the left hand lane and then turning.
It largely depends on the conditions of course; when right hand lane traffic is moving very slowly buses, taxis and cyclists don't necessarliy slow down much, if at all.
Its not a 'hard' left turn
Its the same left turn it would be if the bus lane was a pavement
she(and others) simply have got used to cutting left early and shooting up the bus lane.
I raised before about the akward left turn on Blacket Avenue. thats a different latter. the junction they are talking about is a non issue.
I think the term "hard left" is being used simply to describe turning directly from the outside lane.
I don't think anyone is saying that is difficult; just that it has added danger of being hit by fast moving traffic coming up the bus lane.
My understanding is that bus lanes exist to speed the movement of buses/taxis/cyclists by removing them from general traffic. They don't exist to penalise people who clip the edge of the lane as they turn a corner - assuming these people are turning when it is safe to do so and not impeding buses/cyclists/taxis.
This is unthinking enforcement - which will slowly erode support for bus lanes amongst residents living near them. I know it may be tempting to put the boot into "bad drivers", but I think such petty enforcement makes support for more bus/cycle lanes from those living next to potential routes less likely.
And the added risk for cyclists of being left hooked. None of which would be a problem if people used their mirrors correctly.
Though it would probably surprise drivers behind if one stopped in lane to allow a bus up ones inside before performing a turn.
"I don't think anyone is saying that is difficult; just that it has added danger of being hit by fast moving traffic coming up the bus lane."
Well then maybe this "danger" will teach drivers to use their wingmirrors rather than just swerving left without warning like they do at the moment.
"They don't exist to penalise people who clip the edge of the lane as they turn a corner - assuming these people are turning when it is safe to do so and not impeding buses/cyclists/taxis."
The cameras only catch people who have been in the lane for 10 seconds or more. That is hardly "clipping".
Traffic on the inside lane should not be overtaking that in the right hand lane unless the right hand lane is stopped, surely?
This is how bike lanes work in Copenhagen - drivers have to make an equivalent "hard right" over the lane which could have a bike in it. Drivers pay attention and use their mirrors and stop if there's anything there and wait for it to be safe to proceed. Drivers behind also see this and drive accordingly.
Clearly in this country we prefer to pander to bad driving.
@Morningsider, as I understand it the cameras aren't like speed cameras with simple 'click, you're in the lane', but rather will only snap if someone is in it for a pre-determined length of time. I might be wrong.
@SRD, Fox News?
Well then maybe this "danger" will teach drivers to use their wingmirrors rather than just swerving left without warning like they do at the moment.
Exactly. Mind you if they see it's 'just' a cyclist they'll turn 'hard' left anyway regardless.
I know this junction pretty well. It is not difficult or dangerous, Willowbrae Avenue is nice and wide, there's a checked box to facilitate turning. I mean where is the issue?
Its not a 'hard' left turn
Its the same left turn it would be if the bus lane was a pavement
she(and others) simply have got used to cutting left early and shooting up the bus lane.
Precisely. If a few hundred quid in fines makes some folk drive more carefully in future we'll all be safer.
mgj "Traffic on the inside lane should not be overtaking that in the right hand lane unless the right hand lane is stopped, surely?"
This is true for car lanes but not for bus lanes which are there to help buses get through the congestion. They couldn't do that if they were not allowed to drive past all the queues of cars.
"The cameras only catch people who have been in the lane for 10 seconds or more. That is hardly "clipping"."
That would nearly 90m of bus lane at 20mph.
Are the cameras in pairs then, to detect the length of time?
@anth I try not to watch fox news. but for all its awfulness haven't seen it used in this way, at least not any more/less than media here. Maybe I've missed something?
Min, anth - I wasn't aware of the 10 second thing, thanks for that. In which case, the residents have nothing to grumble about.
"Are the cameras in pairs then, to detect the length of time?"
Good question, I guess they must be. This is from yesterdays story.
"Fiona Patterson received two notices on Friday, 17 days after she was snapped temporarily passing in to the Willowbrae Road Greenway as she turned into her home street of Willowbrae Avenue.
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“Rather than doing a hard left at the junction I moved into the bus lane temporarily,” she said. “The ticket said I had to be in it for at least 10 seconds but I’m sure it was less than that."
As said,the 10 second limit means nobody is penalised for clipping the bus lane.
They are however 'penalised' for driving up the bus lane to turn left.
doing 30mph a car would cover around 15 feet
all it requires is they(wel we) turn left at the appropriate point in the road
I'm desperately googling on how the cameras work now! ;)
I think they're just CCTV, not sure if there is tech behind them or an old fashioned eyeball 1.0
Edit: Though I might be wrong, i'm sure i've only seen the one camera on Calder Road.
In Nottingham they have a human element.
Clearly in this country we prefer to pander to bad driving.
Alas, yes, some of 'us' do. Certainly the chipwrapper seems to be in thrall to the incompetents, chancers and "it only ever happens to others" types. Any chance to stir it up and have a go at the council? Or have chipwrapper 'journalists' been fined too perhaps?
Anth - I understand that CEC uses the LaneCheck system (see http://www.vysionics.com/LaneCheck/) which is an approved device for bus lane enforcement and combined CCTV and ANPR camera system. Not quite what is described in the answer you found previously.
The "recording 5 seconds of contextual video images to allow the operator to review" from LaneCheck there corroborates the "This video evidence is then reviewed to determine whether or not a contravention has taken place" from thecooncil.com. It's not saying that you have to stay in for the full five seconds to be charged, just that the operators have five seconds' worth of snapshots to judge from. The question is, are they reviewing all the footage before issuing charge notices or only when there's an appeal?
Just had someone have a go at me because they have been fined for driving in the bus lane. Why am I allowed in the bus lane and they are not? Sigh,I can't be bothered arguing today and just said thats the law.
Estrella - just tell them they are allowed in the bus lane - it's their car that isn't allowed.
Interesting, thanks @Morningsider.
5 seconds is still quite a long time to be in the lane to make a turn - as Wingpig says, it would be interesting to know if the 5 seconds are human-reviewed in every case, or just when there's an appeal...
I love the completely random destruction of the English language...
"its crazy this new rule they have imposed in edinburgh, first car tax is by what emissions your car uses, then parking zone tickets are charged by what emissions your car uses, NOW you cant use your car in a bus lane or you will be fined, what next, the local authorites are become worst than government at imposing stupid and outlandish rules and regulations, i've just come off the phone from edinburgh parking services who are controlling the bus lanes charge notices, i requested that they give me the act of law that allows them to charge fines to people using bus lanes with a certified time of operation, the response what unbelievable, we don't issue fines, we issue charge notices, as charging fines would mean it was regulated by law, crazy as it may sound but these notices have been planned in advance the amendments about bus lanes have been in force quietly since 2010, but they haven't had the right to use cameras to enforce them until recently hence the announcement to use cameras to "snare" drivers using the bus lanes, personally they just want to line there pockets for more cash to pay themselfs hefty bounses"
Actually, this is a good point re the sharpness of the turn: "Non story as usual. Surely you have to make a sharper turn if you're in the bus lane, rather than the outside lane. You slow down indicate, no problem. These stories are getting pretty limp. Pay your fine and learn the rules of the road."
@Morningsider I'm going to use that the next time any of them say anything, thanks.
I'm still pretty sure that nobody is complaining about the 'sharpness' of the turn.
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