CityCyclingEdinburgh Forum » General Edinburgh

"New bus lane cameras ‘causing road chaos’ "

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  1. Wilmington's Cow
    Member

    It's not really clear why they think the 'hard left' is dangerous - no-one actually says it's anything to do with anything being on the left. Equally no-one actually says it's because it makes it a sharp turn.

    "It can technically be accessed from Willowbrae Road without crossing the bus lane but it requires a “hard left” turn which they believe to be unsafe"

    "Obviously I support traffic management throughout the city but this camera is too close to Willowbrae Avenue and drivers are not able to make a safe left turn without encroaching into the bus lane on their approach"

    "The woman said she had attempted to take a sharp left hand turn to avoid the edges of the bus lane but that it was unsafe especially with a child in the back"

    Posted 12 years ago #

  2. chdot
    Admin

    "just tell them they are allowed in the bus lane - it's their car that isn't allowed"

    Nice one!

    I was going to say 'tell them they are allowed in on a bus or bike - they choose to use something that isn't'.

    Like it or not, governments - in half-hearted ways are trying to reduce the number of cars in use in urban areas - which is of benefit to the majority if people.

    Posted 12 years ago #

  3. Min
    Member

    Morningsider "Min, anth - I wasn't aware of the 10 second thing, thanks for that. In which case, the residents have nothing to grumble about."

    Sorry if that seemed a bit snappy, I didn't intend it to be but it came out that way! And I see from your link that the camera is actually on for 5 seconds. I guess the one at Willowbrae is set a wee way up the road, requiring another 5 seconds to reach the turn.

    cb "I'm still pretty sure that nobody is complaining about the 'sharpness' of the turn."

    I think what they are complaining about can be summed up thusly:-

    WAHH WAHH, I WANT TO DRIVE MY CAR IN THE BUS LANE WAHH WAHH!

    Posted 12 years ago #

  4. crowriver
    Member

    @Min, I think the phrase 'desperately seeking any excuses to try and appeal the fines' is applicable in this case.

    Driver: "I fought the law, and the law won. Boo-hoo! It wisnae me, it was the road, it was my bairn, it was those other drivers making me do it..."

    Posted 12 years ago #

  5. Wilmington's Cow
    Member

    I think I need to film turning into this street...

    Posted 12 years ago #

  6. stiltskin
    Member

    As I said to the other clueless driver, slow down, stop, check mirrors, wait until it is safe to turn left, all un-necesarry if the council would simply move the end of bus lane back.

    I know it is the EEN & I know it is the Internet but I actually find it quite terrifying that we have to share the roads with people who contribute these sort of comments to the article.

    Posted 12 years ago #

  7. Wilmington's Cow
    Member

    I rode past the opening to the street this morning. Of course my camera was pointing too downwards to give vid of any use. But what I can say is that 5 seconds in the bus lane ni the run up to the junction is quite a long distance.

    20mph is apparently 8.94 metres per second, so that's over 40 metres (at a constant 20, chosen because, let's face it, the approach will be faster, though the turn will be slower). That's quite a big distance to prepare for the turn...

    Posted 12 years ago #

  8. Min
    Member

    "As I said to the other clueless driver, slow down, stop, check mirrors, wait until it is safe to turn left, all un-necesarry if the council would simply move the end of bus lane back.

    I know it is the EEN & I know it is the Internet but I actually find it quite terrifying that we have to share the roads with people who contribute these sort of comments to the article."

    You only need to spend any time in a bus lane to know it is true! "Mirror, signal, manoeuvre" has long been replaced by "manoeuvre".

    Posted 12 years ago #

  9. Wilmington's Cow
    Member

    Actually, that was slightly unnerving riding that way this morning. As has been pointed out, it really does seem to have had the effect that was desired, cars are staying out of the bus lane right until the very end of it! But at all times I expected a car on my right to cut across me...

    Posted 12 years ago #

  10. PS
    Member

    Let's be clear, here. The only reason people are doing this is to jump the queue to get to their junction.

    They're sitting there in stationary traffic, backed up from the lights, but there's the junction end, what? 50 yards away, beckoning. And all that stands between them and its welcoming embrace is an empty bus lane. So, sit and wait for the next phase on the lights, or just nip up the empty bus lane? Well, no-one gets hurt... the victim-less crime...

    But now the crime is being punished. No fair!

    Posted 12 years ago #

  11. chdot
    Admin

    "Let's be clear, here. The only reason people are doing this is to jump the queue to get to their junction."

    Think you might be onto something there!

    Posted 12 years ago #

  12. wingpig
    Member

    Any left is a hard left if you rightfully believe you shouldn't have to slow down to make it. There should be a traffic light on the side-road holding traffic waiting to emerge from it a few yards back so that you can go wide and encroach on the oncoming lane when you turn squealingly in.
    It's not fair, all those people in the queue in front of you, some of which are selfishly turning right. If there was no dedicated bus lane then straight-ahead traffic could go in there, leaving the selfish right-turning scumbags to sit and fester in the right-hand lane without getting in the way of important going-straight-ahead people.
    Unless you want to turn right yourself, in which case the primary irk-recipients are the selfish going-straight-ahead-in-the-opposite-direction people approaching from the other side of the junction, blocking honest hard-working turning-right traffic from turning right across them. There should be a right-turn filter, but not one of these rubbish ones which only lasts a few seconds and only lets a few cars through. In fact there should be a continuous lane going in every direction so that there are no queues when some weak and selfish fool tries to turn off safely by looking, slowing down and signalling first.

    Posted 12 years ago #

  13. cb
    Member

    This all goes to demonstrate that truly segregated cycle lanes running down the inside (like they have in Copenhagen - see Anth's post somewhere above) won't really work here without a fundamental change in the way people here drive, or their attitude to driving.

    Posted 12 years ago #

  14. Min
    Member

    This all goes to demonstrate that truly segregated cycle lanes running down the inside (like they have in Copenhagen - see Anth's post somewhere above) won't really work here without a fundamental change in the way people here drive, or their attitude to driving.

    Yes indeed. It might all look very nice but it does rely heavily on people not driving over cyclists at junctions, a problem we already have here when we are right in front of them and which can surely only get worse if we are off to the side where we can be even more easily ignored.

    Posted 12 years ago #

  15. Stepdoh
    Member

    Le Sigh:

    @brianjaffa: Didn't take long for 1st u-turn of new #burndownie regime with news of review of bus lane clampdown this morning. Has @LAHinds set a record?"

    Posted 12 years ago #

  16. chdot
    Admin

    http://www.scotsman.com/edinburgh-evening-news/transport/city-orders-buslane-fines-probe-1-2300118

    Posted 12 years ago #

  17. Morningsider
    Member

    "The review will look into why so many drivers are being caught"!

    Why isn't my job that easy?

    Posted 12 years ago #

  18. Min
    Member

    Nothing wrong with having a review. If people are really being caught before the lane is even in operation and so on, then it should be looked at. Just so long as they do not decide to get rid of the cameras but it doesn't sound like that from the language being used by Lesley Hinds.

    Posted 12 years ago #

  19. Arellcat
    Moderator

    The review will look into why so many drivers are being caught.

    Perhaps there is a problem with the ANPR system or the timing of the infraction. Or perhaps the system is actually working just fine and there really are that many drivers breaking the rules.

    Posted 12 years ago #

  20. chdot
    Admin

    "

    The Highway Code (@HighwayCodeGB)

    19/05/2012 14:58
    You should not drive in a bus lane during its period of operation, unless otherwise indicated #HighwayCode rule 141
    "

    Posted 12 years ago #

  21. SRD
    Moderator

    was very tempted to tweet back 'except in edinburgh with the weight of the local rag behind you'

    Posted 12 years ago #

  22. Instography
    Member

    After much intensive scrutiny it has been discovered that so many drivers are being caught because of the coincidence of four key factors:

    1. The cameras are switched on
    2. They are recording
    3. The number plate recognition system works
    4. People are driving in the bus lanes.

    Posted 12 years ago #

  23. Uberuce
    Member

    If you're BikeFan you can skip this post since I've told you this anecdote already.

    I was on a bus a few years ago in late December and shared the ride with some ladies that had done their Christmas shoplifting. I know that at least one forum member dislike the term 'ladies' but chdot definitely dislikes what I'd like to call them, and he's Admin, so there's your precedence.

    They had just justified to themselves that their looting was justified because no-one lost out but insurance companies, who deserved to lose out. The notion that insurance companies do really rather well, thank you, from theft and pass that cost onto me the not-lady evidently escaped them.

    One to t'other then regaled the tale of how Person A had disgruntled Person B, at which point Person B called the cops and tipped them off to the fact that Person A had a bajillion quid's worth of stolen goods in her flat.

    One them said without the merest speck of irony: some people dinnae have any morals at all, eh?

    I try my very best to come up with bizarre permutations on reality for comedy purposes, and I think I'm pretty good at it, but this lady will forever put me in the shade.

    Posted 12 years ago #

  24. Rabid Hamster
    Member

    Green lanes need to be 0700 to 1900 like Newcastle, or 24hr operating eg everyone bar buses, cycles, and bona fide black cabs stay out of them!
    Keep It Simple, Stupid! Then we all know where we stand!

    Posted 12 years ago #

  25. crowriver
    Member

    One them said without the merest speck of irony: some people dinnae have any morals at all, eh?

    That's the honour code among thieves: do not grass.

    There must be something similar going on with drivers and speeding/RLJing.

    Green lanes need to be 0700 to 1900 like Newcastle, or 24hr operating

    Yes, Edinburgh's are terribly half-hearted, a bit like the 'advisory' on-road cycle lanes.

    Posted 12 years ago #

  26. Wilmington's Cow
    Member

    Over the weekend I twice drove the turn into Willowbrae Avenue that is causing all the consternation. First time I took it as a 'hard left' (making sure the bus lane was clear for me to do so) by braking and turning at the last minute; second time by slowing correctly and turning in a more relaxed motion. With both the turn is pretty damned easy without encroaching on the bus lane, and certainly not for 5 seconds or so (on the former style of turn I perhaps clipped the white line (but not inside the white line) for all of half a second).

    Oh, and because the road starts a slight left curve at that point then checking the lane is made all the more easy as the angle helps you with mirror and over-the-shoulder (never just rely on your mirrors kids) checks.

    And my father-in-law, who lives on Willowbrae Avenue and knows a lot of his neighbours, is another person who hadn't even realised the cameras were there (how I don't know...) so Willowbrae Avenue is certainly not, as a whole, angry about this. But don't let that stop local councillors and MSPs having to defend the causes of the incompetent.

    Posted 12 years ago #

  27. Stepdoh
    Member

    See, PR genius like I am has worked out a way of turning the positive into the negative, particularly in "fur coat etc." Edinburgh.

    ________
    *------*
    *-VIP--*
    *-LANE-*
    *------*
    *-Cars-*
    *-£60--*
    *peruse*
    --------

    You'd definitely get some people using it just to feel special.

    Posted 12 years ago #

  28. Wilmington's Cow
    Member

    Until someone compared it to a toll road, and simply another stealth tax on the already over-burdened motorist.

    I defeat your PR genuis fu with my EEN gritty realism.

    Posted 12 years ago #

  29. Stepdoh
    Member

    No no noooo... there's a (literally) parallel free alternative, ergo it's a toll road.

    Posted 12 years ago #

  30. custard
    Member

    Was at the zoo today.
    so driving home out to the bypass at the start of rush hour.
    took note of the Greenway traffic
    no cars using them
    multiple taxis with no passengers
    couple of motobikes
    though I'm torn on the bikes
    yes its not allowed,however they don't hinder traffic

    Posted 12 years ago #

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