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Bikeability training

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  1. DaveC
    Member

    Well today went well. I took the day off - hence Twitter and CCE silence.

    All was well. A few wobbly young cyclists doing multiple circuits of the road down from the road. Only one incident where a cyclist turning left was UNDERTAKEN!! by a car also turning left. I didn't see it dirctly as I was 100 yards up the road supervising safe starts and safe stops.

    Brilliant day though. If I had 5 holidays spare I'd probably do the rest of the sessions until next Friday. I'm doing two more mornings Tue and Thur though as I can get into work for 12 and just make up the hours.

    I've been whinging to Cycling Scotland though as after initially registering for this I expected them to get in touch. After badgering them about nothing they replied saying they were just facilitators and the local Cycling Rep in Fife Council was responsible for organising the training. They did say that if nothing was fothcoming I should get back in touch. I heard through a local instructor trainer that Fife council's Cycle coordinator had left for a job in Aberdeen. I whinged about this all yesterday to Cycling Scotland and they left me an email today asking if they could call me to discuss my concerns so I suppose they are not completely ignoring us.

    I don't know if I was expecting too much from them or what? What I did expect was at least someone from the council to contact everyone who volunteered with a date for a training day to run through some of the basics so that on the start of the training I'd have a clue abut their training structure etc...

    What has happened is that I just heard direct from the school that they were looking for volunteers from the New Parents to help give the training fr Cycling Proficiency - so not even mentioning the new name Bikeability! There is a small group of 3 - 4 mums who have done this before but are looking to move on as their children have or will be leaving the primary school this year. Its mainly mums who either cycle or have free time and are keen to get involved. They seem to have pretty much everything handled as far as the training and they do have precis flip booklets as que cards but I didn't receive anything before hand and only when I tweeted Cycling Scotland asking for a link to Level 2 was I given anything. I looked before hand on their website but links were either to broken pages or empty pages listing - to be completed etc...

    So I have printed off all the PDFs and made my own level 2 prompt guide and given it to the ladies at the school.

    We were very fortunate as the local bike mechanic (who is very good and very reasonable as he's not a shop) came along for a couple of hours to check all bikes were safe and have functioning gears and inflated tyres. He did this, I found out today, for FREE! Any bikes not meeting the safe criteria (which were really only non wobbly wheels, working brakes and inflated tyres) were given a note to take home to their parents with his contact card and a simple quote.

    Posted 11 years ago #

  2. Claggy Cog
    Member

    Ah now you see that is the problem of taking the primary position sometimes, that you get vehicles coming up on your inside. Whoa though scary moment and totally idiotic on the part of the driver but hey... Personally I find other cyclists thinking that because you are in the primary position that coming up on your inside is acceptable, they usually get short shrift, and a bit of verbal. It is dangerous and out of order and they need to be told, as they block your field of vision, you are not expecting them, and they may well end up obstructing your smooth turn by coming up your inside on turning. Grrrr. My pet hate. Shoaling....Get thee behind me!!

    Posted 11 years ago #

  3. Claggy Cog
    Member

    Perhaps Dave if turning left moving into the secondary position a way before the end of the road is best this definitely stops the cars from coming up your inside. They may be less likely to overtake as well (on the right) as it would mean they might be on the wrong side of the road.

    Posted 11 years ago #

  4. splitshift
    Member

    Just completed cycle trainer course today in Alloa. Good course, but I suspect now the issues will become apparent !Liase with schools co ordinater etc ! Suppose i just have to get out and do it ! Primary or secondary, irrelivant if nutters are behind the wheel !We had a local coach pull out at a round about, all primary positioned,clearly a training group, all hi vis etc, driver watched us all, approx 5 people,enter roundabout, he was exit/entrance 3 and we were leaving exit 4, so we were almost coming back on ourselves,he (and it was a man !)saw us all enter roundabout, then he got bored, pulled out in front of thye first rider,and his head never even looked at us ! eyes fixed straight ahead, so he didnt see us, so we didnt matter ! M line coaches , Alloa.Probably on a school contract, what chance do children have if the larger vehicles on the road are driven by ************, insert your own professionally competent name !
    Scott

    Posted 11 years ago #

  5. Smudge
    Member

    Yup good course, one of the teaching points however was that if you are far enough over to be undertaken then you are not in a proper primary position (reinforced for us today by the use of photos of us leaving a roundabout).

    That said, muppet drivers are muppet drivers, at least the students get to experience them with positive cycling role models around them.

    Glad you had an enjoyable course though Dave, if you want more info I should now be pretty up to speed and hopefully will be able to get any other good info from a Cycling Scotland contact once I get the email address ;-)

    Posted 11 years ago #

  6. Claggy Cog
    Member

    I try to give coach drivers a wide berth or let them go I find is best. I am sure I have seen coaches from Alloa, probably aren't too many coach companies. Hunters in Edinburgh are just appalling, I find EM Horsburgh drivers overtake far too close and this happens on my regular commute as they use the Royal Infirmary of Edinburgh site. Some of the tourist coaches coming from either abroad or darn sarf are not to be reckoned with either.

    Posted 11 years ago #

  7. donnymurdo
    Member

    This is to DaveC. Good to hear that you are enjoying being a Training Assistant (the official term for your involvement). I am sorry to say that your story is not just typical but common. Many Training Assistants are concerned that they receive no training or have been shown a video which is up to an hour long before being entrusted with the lives of the children. Officially there is a one day course with Cycling Scotland for this role.

    The role of Cycling Scotland seems to be to provide source materials and put your contact details up on their website. They blame everything else on the local authorities as each area's provision varies.
    Since the revamp of their website it is very hard to find the resources but they are there if you keep looking. The links are not obvious and there is not a sensible route to them. Whenever I can't find a resource I send and email to Cycling Scotland to try and alert them to the fact their website does not work.
    The Active Schools coordinators should have a full completment of resources so from them you will need so have a trainers guide, the brief notes that you mentioned and in addition you should ask for a copy or ask to read the children's guide and the responsibility of parents guide. Between all these you will get a clear picture of what the Bikability is all about. Most schools prefer to refer to Bikability as Cycling Proficiency although it has not been called this since Cycling Scotalnd came into existance. Its previous name The Scottish Cycle Training Scheme is a bit of a mouthful.

    And as for the car overtaking a cyclist on the left at a junction while the cyclist is also trying to turn left, this happens all the time and scares the hell out of the kids especially when the car can't quite squeeze through and the car mounts the kerb (often accidentally).

    Don't be afraid to be prescriptive and make a judgement for yourself about the optimum distance from the kerb, count the number of dashes on the road and direct the children to that exact spot. Once they get a feel for the correct position they are able to generalise to other junctions. If the left turn has a long sweeping curve then too close to the kerb and you can't see down the road behind you and too far out ... well you know what happens.

    I've been doing cycle training in schools for a few years so if there is anything else you find odd, and there are many things that are odd about cycle training then don't hesitate to ask.

    Posted 11 years ago #

  8. Smudge
    Member

    @Donnymurdo I believe the video has been replaced now by the one day course for training assistants, so if anyone is still being offered that they should contact Cyclingscotland to sort out a course and highlight the fact.
    The website issues were one of the things I and other people on our recent course brought up. There happened to be a cycling Scotland employee on the course and they told me that they were aware of the siter problems and looking for/hoping to achieve improvements.

    Posted 11 years ago #

  9. chdot
    Admin

    I can sympathise with Cycling Scotland if they are dependant on the varying and variable responses of local authorities - BUT if they are merely a 'postbox' when it comes to encouraging volunteers this should be much clearer.

    "
    I looked before hand on their website but links were either to broken pages or empty pages listing - to be completed etc...
    "

    "
    Since the revamp of their website it is very hard to find the resources but they are there if you keep looking. The links are not obvious and there is not a sensible route to them
    "

    "
    there happened to be a cycling Scotland employee on the course and they told me that they were aware of the siter problems and looking for/hoping to achieve improvements.

    "

    That is not acceptable.

    Cycle training shouldn't be a priority after Pedal for Scotland and TV ad campaigns.

    Not enough children in Scotland are getting cycle training. Often this is because schools can't get volunteers. If people are offering themselves to Cycling Scotland (in the first instance) and LAs aren't responding there is a problem.

    CS needs to find out, LA by LA, what the problem is. Perhaps the CS site should just have a list of who to contact in each LA.

    Is there anyone on here in Edinburgh who has volunteered via the CS site and had good/bad/no response?

    Posted 11 years ago #

  10. splitshift
    Member

    Having done the course with smudge, i agree, the CS employee, was well informed about the issues with the website and other internal , tech issues.
    Aside ! as a definate civilian , the course did however seem slightly biased, and populated by professionals who were at work . All nice people, but if volunteers are to be volunteering then I think a more general approach is needed.I know Smudge was volunteering, as was I , and another who incidentally travelled a huge distance !but all all others were ,"training profesionals". Now this might show that we (volunteers) were being treated as equalls or more synically that we were being tollerated, but were not REALLY in the game ? Maybe way off the mark here, but hey ho !

    Posted 11 years ago #

  11. Smudge
    Member

    Yeah the split (iirc) was four from work (without giving away any secrets, a CS employee a youth worker and two teachers) and four volunteers, (one of whom who wasn't able to make the second part of the course making it 4-3 for the professionals).
    My take was that we were being treated as equals, I suspect that because this course is the one intended to prepare people to run courses and mentor the one day course trained volunteers, it is a little more suited/aimed perhaps to the professionals who are already "in" the education system. That said however I felt I was welcome and my presence appreciated throughout the course and I would reccomend it to anyone who is involved/thinking of getting involved in the scheme, professional or not.

    Posted 11 years ago #

  12. splitshift
    Member

    @smudge, yes agree felt completely at ease, and welcome , just think GENERALLY that if more volunteers are needed,the whole procedure is somewhat shrouded in mistery,the "advertising" of the course/courses is kinda hidden in already converted places . If it was given a half page spread in say the localp press, then maybe a greater uptake of helpers generally, dont get me wrong am not knocking it ,glad I did it , and will continue to get more knowledge !
    I genueinly beleive that cycling is on the cusp of a huge explosion in popularity,the inner sanctum of cycling training needs to be opened up to non , dyed in the wool ,own agenda types !
    Or maybe am sooooooo of base ?
    As long as the new and inexperienced can get training , or help .
    Scott

    Posted 11 years ago #

  13. Smudge
    Member

    Fair comment, I think we're broadly in agreement. It was nice to see last night when I had another look that indications of cost have started to appear on the Cycling Scotland course info. Clearly when we made comment/complaint we were being listened to!

    It certainly seems like an explosion in popularity is happening, I was watching TV earlier and looking at the glossy upbeat adverts for the Fiat 500 (I think!) my first thought was "I wonder when a bike company will make a tv advert like that for their bikes?" I'll know cycling has "arrived" when I see that advert ;-)

    Posted 11 years ago #

  14. splitshift
    Member

    I think, maybe wrongly .......
    the last bike ad I saw on TV was for the grifter and boxer and perhaps one other in te same family ?
    showing my somewhat advancing years here though !
    Scott

    Posted 11 years ago #

  15. Smudge
    Member

    <grins>, I remember them both, though not the TV advert, remember before MTB's when Raleigh brought out the "Bomber"? :-D

    Anyway, I shouldn't be wasting time online, I need to be dragging down the MTB and doing a whizz into Edin to visit Evans for a looksee and more importantly re-recce the route for the Guides next cycle ride.

    Should already be on the train not sitting here exercising my memory lol

    Posted 11 years ago #

  16. alibali
    Member

    Mmmh. I think I'm about to be a "Training Assistant" on a Bikeability level 1 "Ready Steady Bike" training course in an Edinburgh primary school.

    The slightly scary aspect is that it's on the basis of ~45 minutes introdution from the Active Schools co-ordinator and a book to take away to study. So next week I'll have 8 to 10 kids on bikes in (thankfuly) the school playground for the to take through the course.

    The other volunteers are a mix of keen cyclists, commuters (like me) and very occasionaly cycling keen parents.

    It'll all be safe enough in the playground but I wonder how well we'll manage to get the content across. I would be very wary of going out on the road with this amount of training.

    Is this the normal approach used in other schools? If so, how does it work out?

    Posted 11 years ago #

  17. Claggy Cog
    Member

    @alibali - you would not be expected to go out on the road with Level 1 training. As you are the training "assistant" there should be someone who will ask you what to do, well that is what I would have thought should happen. They should be able to ask you to position yourself and help with the training.

    You will only be assessing the children's ability to actually cycle. Do you know about the initial equipment/bike check? No children can participate if they don't have a helmet. Who is providing the bikes?

    Posted 11 years ago #

  18. Smudge
    Member

    Normally a training assistant now should/can do a one day course. I understand cycling Scotland are wading through very large numbers of volunteers details at the moment (I had an email from the nice lady I know earlier as she was catching up with some work at home today!) so if you are awaiting reply, don't give up, but don't feel slighted if it takes a while, dramatic increases in interest in cycling can have a downside as well as an upside!

    I'm rather hoping someone from CS can jump on the forum here sometime soon and give us the "official" answers, however this may not be as high a priority as some of their other tasks (like contacting volunteers for one ;-)) Certainly this thread has been brought to their attention and they are looking into addressing the concerns raised (and actually, unlike politicians I believe them!)

    Hopefully Alibali you will have fully trained assistants and ideally a trainer there, if not and there is info I can help out with please do pm me, I will be unfortunately tied down with work for the next three weeks so unable to assist in person though. (you never know afterwards though ;-)

    Hope it is successful and fun anyway.
    S

    Posted 11 years ago #

  19. Smudge
    Member

    @Claggy clog "No children can participate if they don't have a helmet."
    Actually, that's up to the school, it's not a stipulation of the training course, it is however extremely likely to be the case.*

    *not a comment on the good or bad of h*****s, just an observation!

    Posted 11 years ago #

  20. splitshift
    Member

    Agrre whole heartedly with smudge, the nice lady from CS has also contacted me, all the comments we made to her, have been either actioned already,or yes, I believe she/they will look into it !

    Posted 11 years ago #

  21. Claggy Cog
    Member

    @Smudge - whilst it might be at the discretion of the school as to whether or not the children get to take part if they do not have a helmet all the documentation relating to Level 1 ask for a helmet check, it goes on to starting to learn to actually ride "remember to put your helmet on", and children are being actively encouraged to wear helmets whilst riding a bike, therefore if the children are going to take part in training they will undoubtedly be told bring a helmet or prepare to be disappointed. All of the illustrations show people cycling with helmets.

    Posted 11 years ago #

  22. Smudge
    Member

    @Claggy Cog - as I said, "just an observation", not intended to start an argument!

    Bikeability 1 is primarily aimed at young (primary school age) children, however it is just as useful to teach basic cycling skills to adults who have not yet learned core cycling skills for whatever reason.
    Clearly with adults one may be a little less prescriptive in some areas than one would with children, even though teaching or assessing the students ability to carry out core manouevres may cover a lot of the same ground.

    No slight intended!

    Posted 11 years ago #

  23. wee folding bike
    Member

    Glasgow City Council stipulate that plastic cycling hats are worn. I finally found the written version last week when I was completing a risk assessment for going to Gt Cumbrae.

    It's in Management Circular 33, section 2.3.6:

    v. Cycling helmets must be worn by all participants during all cycling activities. For excursions involving the use of public roads, brightly coloured tops or yellow “day glow” safety vests must be worn by all participants.

    I don't think I own anything yellow outwith a CD cycling shirt and it's not very casual. I've arranged for some bibs from the PE dept and copied the above text into the letter for parents/carers. The cycle hire shops in Millport provide plastic hats.

    I'll claim to be an organiser rather than a participant but if the council push the issue I'll step aside and let someone else run the trip next year.

    The risk assessment also had to include things like falling over board from the CalMac ferry.

    We got a letter from the boy's primary school (North Lanarkshire) praising pupils for cycling and noting that most of them are wearing hats. This may be a dig at us since we don't and we're fairly easy to spot.

    Posted 11 years ago #

  24. Smudge
    Member

    "brightly coloured tops or yellow “day glow” safety vests must be worn by all participants."
    Hawaiian shirts would seem to fit the description nicely ;-)

    TBH I have nothing against plastic hats themselves, I wore one today when I as doing a recce for an MTB ride (with no-one around to see whether I did or not!), I generally wear one when I'm around kids. I am however very much against general compulsion.

    It would be a very great shame if you, or anyone other adult, felt they could not organise trips/activities because of such dictats :-/ I can see the decision to insist on other peoples children wearing h*****s (rightly or wrongly) but what adults wear is up to them.

    Posted 11 years ago #

  25. wee folding bike
    Member

    I go to school every day without one and pupils know that so they would be more surprised if I did use one.

    They will be very surprised if I wear yellow. My PoP 28 colour scheme, black, matches most of my wardrobe.

    My boys school doesn't do Bikeability so I haven't had to tell the school what they can do with Their Law but it might be similar to the Prodigy song of the same name, perhaps using a slightly more civilised lexicon, but the intent would be the same.

    Posted 11 years ago #

  26. alibali
    Member

    Led a Bikeability "Getting Started" and "Braking" sessions last week for 11 P5/6s. Seemed to go OK despite my lack of training and torrential rain!

    Did get a ticking off for not noticing that one child was bare headed, but nobody's perfect.

    I'm wondering how best to introduce gears though. Bikeability's "Hard" and "Easy" gears doesn't quite cover it.

    Any suggestions?

    Posted 11 years ago #

  27. Wilmington's Cow
    Member

    "Fast" and "Slow"? I'm sure most would associate going uphill with 'slow'?

    Posted 11 years ago #

  28. wingpig
    Member

    When we did cycling proficiency at school there were kids who were getting it the wrong way around, even taking nomenclature variations into account; the dentist's kid seemed to think that his highest gear would be the best one for a slow race across the playground. More worrying is how adults (who should since have learnt the basics of leverage and/or gearing in secondary school maths and/or physics lessons) still get it wrong and shift up as they come to the bottom of a hill, even after having the "input metres rather than Newtons" thing explained to them.

    Slow/steep/stop versus fast/flat/further?

    Posted 11 years ago #

  29. donnymurdo
    Member

    Teaching Gears - a nice demonstration
    If you wheel a bike with deraileur gears backwards the pedals revolve backwards too. You can exploit this as follows. Change a bike into its lowest gear and place the bike with one pedal downwards closests to the playground. Mark the playground next to the pedal with playground chalk or a stone, cone or anything that will not blow away. Walk the bike backwards watching the pedal go all the way around until it completes a revolution. Mark the playground where the pedal is.
    Change bike into the highest gear, return to the start and repeat.
    You can now show that for each pedal turn you go so far in highest gear and so far in the lowest gear. This demonstrates the relationship between distance and gears.
    A variation particularly popular when demonstrating to groups of adults is to line your group up side by side and get them to do it with their own bikes. See who travels furthest, discuss what advantage this might give the rider. Ditto the bike that travels the shortest distance. Most folk are pleasantly surprised with the results. Try it for yourself. Have fun!

    Posted 11 years ago #

  30. alibali
    Member

    Thank you all, lots of good suggestions there.

    I'll try the distance per revolution demonstration, which introduces the free-wheel too.

    I'll also try to get the fast/slow aspect linked to hard/easy through rate of work. Might sow some seeds for the physics class of the future.

    Posted 11 years ago #

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