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"Cyclecraft" by John Franklin

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  1. Smudge
    Member

    Been reading this as it's the "Bikeability" standard text. OK so I'm a grumpy old pedant but although there is an awful lot of good stuff in there, there are a few bits that make me want to shout at it as though I was watching a channel 5 "documentary"...

    p47 "the rear brake should always be applied a fraction of a second before the front so that the rear wheel does not start to lift" erm, nope...disagree, squeeze that right hand lever hard enough and it wont matter what you're doing with the left, as it wont be affecting the c of g one little bit...

    P51 (on braking) "reaction time varies between about a second and 2.5 seconds" two and a half seconds?? What? When you're asleep?!?

    p53 (still on braking) "a rear wheel skid is easy to control; a skid at the front, almost impossible" rot! A front wheel skid can be harder to control, but it is perfectly possible, it's a skill most off road mc courses teach specifically (and I imagine MTB courses are the same). If it locks up, release brake and re-apply, I ended up having to do it myself on the bikeability course as most were on mtbs (and I was on skinny road tyres) and the braking lesson was done on wet grass, so I had some very large front wheel skids without having to worry about losing control!

    p63 "The slowing down or stopping signal, in which the right arm moves between the body and a position 45deg to the horizontal" Hmmm, now I was always taught it's palm down from horizontal to 45deg down and back again...

    Stuff it, I'm going to bed before I get grumpy(grumpier!)

    S
    ;-)

    Posted 11 years ago #

  2. Smudge
    Member

    http://medical-reports.com/HIGHWAYCODE1931HTML.html

    Did find this though which cheered me up no end B-)

    Posted 11 years ago #

  3. splitshift
    Member

    have to agree , its compulsive reading ! Although like roadcraft and other "bibles" they are written by humans, who are all different !(mostly !) although am sure some might dissagree, some might agree with that, or then some might not, or then some might agree with that!....................etc etc !
    in generally pedantic agreement !
    Scott

    Posted 11 years ago #

  4. wee folding bike
    Member

    There was a history of the Highway Code on Radio 4 last week and it said palm down.

    Posted 11 years ago #

  5. Smudge
    Member

    He keeps on saying things I disagree with...p65 (in relation to collision avoidance "The problems with braking are: firstly, cycle brakes are inefficient; secondly, ther sudden, sharp application is liable to lock a wheel or rip the cable - in either case you may go over the handlebar"
    Pardon?? Inefficient compared with what? Many V's and Discs are very powerful.
    "rip the cable" though... if an emergency stop "rips" your brake cable then your brake cable is flawed and not up to the job! Oh and if the cable does "rip", it will undoubtedly reduce the braking force applied, how on earth he envisages a reducton in braking pitching someone over the bars is beyond me.
    Starting to think this book seriously needs updating/re-writing :-/ (oh and he also advocated operating both downtube gear levers with the right hand, strange notion imo)

    Posted 11 years ago #

  6. Dave
    Member

    Has anyone read the IAM version (by the same author)? I'm guessing that is quite a lot more up to date.

    Some of it is weird - funnily enough I was skimming it at the tail end of last week. Good views on hi-viz and h****s at least! ;-)

    Posted 11 years ago #

  7. Zenfrozt
    Member

    must admit I don't think I've ever indicated an intention to slow down before...

    Posted 11 years ago #

  8. Min
    Member

    Pardon?? Inefficient compared with what? Many V's and Discs are very powerful.

    Smudge, Cyclecraft was written many years ago and needs to be read with that in mind. Braking technology has moved on a lot since then and no doubt the advice he gave was correct in the bad old days of brakes that were only slightly more effective than the sole of your shoe.

    Posted 11 years ago #

  9. Zenfrozt
    Member

    Min surely that depends on which version you're reading. According to his website, there has been an updated/extensively revised edition produced in 2007 which wasn't all that long ago.

    Posted 11 years ago #

  10. Min
    Member

    Really? The one I read was 70s or something. I don't think it recommended to wear terry towelling vest and a sweatband while riding but it wasn't far off.

    Posted 11 years ago #

  11. SRD
    Moderator

    @Smudge - perhaps it is written for us 'normal' cyclists, and not those specially trained in stopping skids? last two times my front wheel skidded out from under me I had no chance of recovery.

    @zenfrost - I use 'slowing down' a fair bit, especially if pulling off to the side on a busy road (not not turning off). especially if I have another cyclist behind me (or a bus), and a child on back.

    Posted 11 years ago #

  12. crowriver
    Member

    The 'slowing down' signal is useful on group rides. Indeed I wished some of the other riders on the Spokes ride yesterday had used that signal, as I nearly ran into the back of one lady who braked sharply and suddenly ahead of me.

    I experienced a front wheel skid in a deluge of rain and sleet yesterday, which ended with the front wheel wobbling into a gully and the bike chucking me off...

    Posted 11 years ago #

  13. Tom
    Member

    Perhaps he means a front wheel slip while cornering. You can't recover from that.

    I don't remember that braking advice. I read it for the primary/secondary concept which was a revelation to me.

    The other counter-intuitive idea I found in it was that speed = safety. That is, if you're going at the speed of other traffic, take primary and you have only the car in front and the car behind to worry about.

    Posted 11 years ago #

  14. SRD
    Moderator

    "Perhaps he means a front wheel slip while cornering. You can't recover from that." No kidding! (glad it wasn't just me)

    Posted 11 years ago #

  15. Zenfrozt
    Member

    hmm I shall try and use it more regularly...just to be clear you move your right hand up and down with the palm facing down?

    Posted 11 years ago #

  16. SRD
    Moderator

    Yeah, if you're in africa or somewhere like that you'll see lots of drivers with hands flapping out the window - usually means their brake lights don't work (or they're being towed).

    It's not something you'll use everyday, but when you need it, it's handy.

    Posted 11 years ago #

  17. Smudge
    Member

    Yup it's the "Fourth edition 2007" I'm reading. Agreed front wheel slides when cornering are usually the time one leaves the bike, but if you're braking in a straight line they are more often than not recoverable. Doesn't especially require special training, but a bit of practice can be good for when the unfortunate happens.

    Bearing in mind that my MTB "skilz" are non-existant and I am not an off road instructor/trainer or whatever, I learned through accidental lock-ups on motorbikes, then experiment and incident on both road and mountain bikes when conditions are poor (and especially on mtbs where the back was useless due to slippery conditions, the impact area looked painful and the coward in me considered locking the front the least scary of the options ;-))

    Were I to suggest a way to learn, I'd say I'd recommend a quiet, gentle, grassy slope (without rocks or painful areas if you get it wrong!), ideally after rain and a bike with good brakes and ideally road tyres. Start by scooting along slowly and brake, front only, gently increasing the pressure until the front locks a little, instantly let go and then repeat. You'll find that as long as the bike is in balance and the surface smooth you will stay upright (honest!). With a little practice you can put feet on the pedals (but don't clip in!) and add a little speed. Don't go daft, it's only an exercise to build confidence and front brake control, and as we know the bike is pretty unstable with a locked front wheel, but it helps to establish in your brain that a locked front wheel is not an automatic crash so no reason to panic, and in your muscle memory that the reaction to a locked wheel is to release pressure on the lever.
    In my experience, for many people a locked wheel causes fright and panic so they involuntarily tense up and squeeze the brake harder, both of which increase the chances of losing it, so a little practice under control can help overcome this. (but if you fall off it's your own lookout! ;-))

    Back on topic, I have, and have read the IAM book "Advanced cycling" and nothing leapt out at me as "wrong", out of date or silly, in fact on the whole I thought it was rather good. So I do wonder if the Cyclecraft book is just in need of a proper re-write rather than a gentle update :-/

    Posted 11 years ago #

  18. crowriver
    Member

    "Perhaps he means a front wheel slip while cornering. You can't recover from that."

    Which is what happened to me. At low speed too, turning towards an uphill section.

    Posted 11 years ago #

  19. Smudge
    Member

    "Perhaps he means a front wheel slip while cornering. You can't recover from that."

    But, it's not what he wrote!! (and he's had three re-writes to get it right)

    Posted 11 years ago #

  20. chdot
    Admin

    "
    The Highway Code (@HighwayCodeGB)

    07/05/2012 13:30

    Make sure your signals won't confuse others. If you want to stop after a side road, don't signal until you are passing the road. Rule 103

    "

    Posted 11 years ago #

  21. Tom
    Member

    Smudge: "But, it's not what he wrote!!"

    Good point. My problem with his advice on road position and speed is that it's a well kept secret. No-one seems to have thought that motorists ought to be told about primary and secondary (unless it's now mentioned in the Highway Code).

    Posted 11 years ago #

  22. alibali
    Member

    gently increasing the pressure until the front locks a little, instantly let go and then repeat..

    Cadence braking, in fact. Certainly takes some practice. Once learned to do it in a car (before ABS). Charging towards mother & baby (dummies) on a skid pan it's impossible to prise your foot off the brakes at first. But dummies are tough and eventually I stopped in time and straight.

    You have been warned...

    Posted 11 years ago #

  23. Smudge
    Member

    "Cadence braking, in fact" quite right, but if you use the posh name it sometimes makes it sound like something difficult or clever ;-) and really it's just repeatedly applying/releasing the brakes and not freezing and clamping them on.

    I think primary and secondary are becoming less well kept secrets, but I have to confess I can't remember if they appear in the highway code at all. If not, perhaps they should? (although given that most bolshie drivers don't know even the bits of the HC that relate to them, I'm not sure how much difference it would make :-/ )

    Posted 11 years ago #

  24. splitshift
    Member

    @smudge ! my we are in a good mood today !
    "just in need of a good rewrite ! "
    go on then !Ill buy it ! 0 \
    0 /

    Posted 11 years ago #

  25. Smudge
    Member

    @Splitshift, just grumpy with someone who sets himself up as an "expert" producing a book which is pointed at as the definitive work but which contains some real howlers imo.
    If I'd paid for it I really would be grumpy!

    Am awaiting Kirst's pic of her bloomers to brighten my mood ;-))

    Posted 11 years ago #

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