Lot of statues of the same woman and her wee boy on South Uist (shrines to sugar loaf style) similar in western Ireland. (See Ben fogle programme)
CityCyclingEdinburgh Forum » General Edinburgh
Campaign for more statues of women
(119 posts)-
Posted 3 years ago #
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I don't disagree with the core concept of more statues of women, but "you can't be what you can't see" has to be one of the most inane sentiments to take hold in recent years. Also rather luckily it seems to be a sentiment that most of the women Stephen Jardine puts forth as worthy of commemoration didn't share, or they wouldn't have been achieving all those noteworthy firsts.
Posted 2 years ago # -
I guess someone had to be 'first' but how many more might there have been?
I'm always amazed at how many amazing women did amazing things, only we've never heard of them.
Posted 2 years ago # -
Statue for SRD!
Posted 2 years ago # -
"you can't be what you can't see"
"It's a bit easier if you have a role model" isn't quite as snappy?
Posted 2 years ago # -
@Frenchy Well yes, that's where the philosophical disagreement comes in. Not to come off all Four Yorkshiremen, but when I were a lad the idea you had to be demographically identical to someone to look up to them/serve as a positive example for them was thought to be a pretty backwards idea of the sort you'd see from "the other side", but now the fashion seems to be for identitarian thinking in all things from all points on the political compass.
There should be more statues of noteworthy women because those women's achievements merit commemoration, but framing it as a necessity because people can supposedly only emulate those who look like they do sticks in the craw a bit, for me anyway.
Posted 2 years ago # -
Interesting that you individualise it so Yodhrin. I've always seen it as a more societal problem.
If, growing up, everyone discourages you (or even mocks you) for trying to be more, then you're unlikely to buck that trend and strike out on an unusual, precarious and unsupported path.
Especially so, if you're expected to quit school and go out to work to support a younger brother. Or get married to pay off daddy's debts, or provide for your mother. etc
Posted 2 years ago # -
See, I don't understand - what about "you shouldn't *have* to be demographically identical to someone to look up to them and be inspired by their accomplishments" gives you the impression my position is individualised, or that the logic of it accepts people being discouraged and bullied?
My point is exactly the opposite - you don't fix societal-scale issues by divvying people up into little interest groups and pitting them against each other(not to get all Alex Jones, but it is interesting to note that most of these ideas struggled to break out of very niche parts of academia until they were adopted en masse seemingly overnight by the largely neoliberal centrist-aligned media commentariat, *right* after Occupy Wallstreet demonstrated cross-racial, cross-cultural class unity wasn't entirely dead yet...). Boys should be encouraged to see women as rolemodels. Girls should be encouraged to see men as rolemodels. It shouldn't be "problematic" for a white kid to "see themselves" in the deeds or words of a black person or to enjoy the fruits of non-white cultures, nor "colonialism" to suggest that a young black or asian kid could find something of value to learn in a novel written by a "dead white male". In short, people should be brought up to value the deeds & works, and those who achieve them, regardless of their superficial demographic qualities.
Posted 2 years ago # -
I don't disagree with your aims/goals.
I do question your take on what it actually meant to be an intellectually ambitious woman in Victorian England, denied education, forced to make a 'home' for your widowed father (or whatever) rather than pursue the scientific career you aspire to, because society, your family etc block your ambitions no matter how much personal self-faith you might have. Because the environment in which you find yourself does not see your career path as a realistic option for a woman.
Posted 2 years ago # -
There are always exceptional people with (obviously) different life events/stages.
Different, inspirational etc.
Likely to be less ‘visible’ if female.
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In 1834 she became the first person to be described in print as a 'scientist'.[2] When she died in 1872, The Morning Post declared in her obituary that "Whatever difficulty we might experience in the middle of the nineteenth century in choosing a king of science, there could be no question whatever as to the queen of science".
“
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mary_Somerville
Don’t know if two busts equals a statue!
https://artuk.org/discover/artworks/mary-somerville-17801872-252944
https://artuk.org/discover/artworks/mary-somerville-17801872-262183
Posted 2 years ago # -
She does have an Oxford college named after her...
Posted 2 years ago # -
Nor is it a one-way gradual process…
“
Last week South Korea picked a new president: Yoon Suk-yeol. He is a conservative who defeated his liberal rival Lee Jae-myung. During his campaign he promised to abolish the Ministry for Gender Equality, denying that women face discrimination. South Korea has one of the worst women's rights records in the developed world, although modest gains have been made over the last few years. But that has ignited an anti-feminist backlash among many young men who see feminism as reverse discrimination, taking away their jobs and opportunities. So what does Yoon Suk-yeol’s election mean for women? Emma is joined by Laura Bicker, the BBC’s Soeul Correspondent and the feminist South-Korean film-maker Youjin Do.
“
Posted 2 years ago # -
@SRD Aha, I seem to have found the problem - you appear to be inventing "my take" from scratch based on your own assumptions rather than anything I've actually said. Probably best to just leave it there then.
Posted 2 years ago # -
Rather, I see structures which limit and constrain opportunities, shaping identities and attitudes.
I'm analysing the past/present. You're arguing "what ought to be"/ how people ought to see the world.
Perhaps you're right and we may as well stop arguing at cross purposes.
But good luck changing the future if you don't understand the past.
Posted 2 years ago # -
I have a definite opinion on this, but I'd be interested to know what 'groups' Yodhrin considers themselves to be part of.
(I've 'seen' SRD, so already know.)Posted 2 years ago # -
Just a mild warning about going too far with firmly held views (or assumptions about them).
CCE is still suffering (probably permanently) from the fallout from THAT controversy.
In addition I was blamed for taking action against ‘offenders’ AND for not taking action fast enough and/or ‘even-handedly’.
Fortunately I got some PMs saying my (attempted) ‘light touch’ was appreciated/justified.
Posted 2 years ago # -
Irrespective of why they were installed, the statues (of identified people) we currently have do tend to have an air of commemoration-of-the-rich/influential/privileged about them - their subjects may also have streets or buildings named after them, or be otherwise well-known enough for the statue to not be then reason why their names are known. Maybe rich/privileged/influential people do look at them and think "I'd like a statue of me", maybe they don't, but if you're the sort of person commonly exhibited in statue form you're more likely to consider such commemoration possible, or even deserved? I've heard non-rich/privileged/influential people describe the inspiration of visible role models in media other than stone/bronze/marble, but usually expressed as wanting to be able to do or be something and being reassured that that specific role/job/action/career/life is possible through example.
Posted 2 years ago # -
@the Canuck interesting question but I'm sure there are people demographically similar to me who nonetheless disagree profoundly with me.
I agree totally with Yodrin on all of this: "Boys should be encouraged to see women as rolemodels. Girls should be encouraged to see men as rolemodels. It shouldn't be "problematic" for a white kid to "see themselves" in the deeds or words of a black person or to enjoy the fruits of non-white cultures, nor "colonialism" to suggest that a young black or asian kid could find something of value to learn in a novel written by a "dead white male". In short, people should be brought up to value the deeds & works, and those who achieve them, regardless of their superficial demographic qualities."
and have tried to bring my own kids up in much that way.
but I don't think our society now (much less our past societies) can be described that way, nor can we expect those outcomes.
Posted 2 years ago # -
Yes, I'd agree with all that.
Posted 2 years ago # -
Posted 2 years ago #
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Fantastic to see (even if it’s temporary) 3 female statues . Even more incredible they’re sports stars - more please
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Posted 8 months ago # -
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Incredibly honoured that one of my portraits of Dr Elsie Inglis is now part of the Permanent collection at Surgeons' Hall Museum, Edinburgh!
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Posted 3 months ago #
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