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Hello from Cycle PC

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  1. Cycle PC
    Member

    Good afternoon all,

    I would like to introduce myself. My name is Paul and I work within the Road Policing Branch of Lothian & Borders Police. I have been part of the working group looking at improving cycle safety in the city of Edinburgh over the last 18 months or so. I have approached my line managers and asked if I can register on here to offer advice on cyling and other road safety issues that may be current just now.

    I cycle in Edinburgh on a daily basis, commuting to my place of work at Fettes. I own 3 bikes, and want another one. I watch cycling on the telly, and I go cycling with my kids. I am married and also own a dog.

    Professionally, I have been in the police for 11 years, 7 of which have been with the Road Policing Branch. I am currently attached to the patrol section of the branch and am trained to advanced level in Vehicle Accident Investigation. I am and advanced police driver and also hold a full motorcycle licence.

    The purpose of me becoming a member on here is to assist with any queries you may have. I can not take reports of incidents, or give advice on any ongoing enquiry. I can not give my personal opinion, however I will endeavour to be as frank and honest as I can.

    If you do wish to report an incident, you can use this link http://lbpcmsstaging/Internet/contact_us.aspx

    I am fairly new to forums, this being my first foray so to speak, so please be gentle with me to start.

    So if anyone has any questions??

    Posted 12 years ago #

  2. Wilmington's Cow
    Member

    Allo allo allo...

    (sorry, someone had to).

    Welcome to CCE! Always nice to have a professional face in the fray here - after Pedal on Parliament I think there's a reasonably good opinion of the police on the forum here (I was one of the marshals and have to admit it was a joy working with your cycle cop guys to keep everything in check - well... they kept everything in check while we rode on their coat-tails).

    I'm sure there will be BAGS of questions to come. Good to have you on-board.

    Posted 12 years ago #

  3. DaveC
    Member

    Great to see you on here Paul. Thanks for offering us a portal to LBP.

    I'm Dave, own 3 bikes, no dog but two wee boys, who I'd like to feel can cycle on the road when they are a little older. I don't live in the Burgh instead commuting a few days a week from Dalgety Bay.

    Posted 12 years ago #

  4. wingpig
    Member

    Welcome. At 17:20 or thereabouts you'd've been able to get away with an "evenin', all"...

    If we are subject to a non-contact non-injury-or-damage-causing bit of scary driving (close passes and so on) where we record the number plate but don't have any other witnesses and have no hat-camera footage, is there much point in reporting it? If the driver does something worse later, will our report show up (or be counted) as prior form?

    Posted 12 years ago #

  5. ruggtomcat
    Member

    Spotted two 'mounted' police today on S colledge street, presumably part of the enforcement aspect of the latest ASL/RLJ operation?

    Been involved in any spectacular bike chases?

    Hi! btw :)

    Posted 12 years ago #

  6. chdot
    Admin

    In case anyone is wondering, (like they did when Cllr. Mackenzie joined CCE), PC Paul is real.

    He was even at PoP28 (don't think he was a cycle cop on the day).

    Posted 12 years ago #

  7. shuggiet
    Member

    Great Initiative Paul. Welcome..

    I'm also looking to try and make daily cycling safer for my child and family.....

    Can you tell us more about the work of the 'working group looking at improving cycle safety in the city of Edinburgh '? Is that a LBP , CEC or something else group?

    Posted 12 years ago #

  8. Uberuce
    Member

    Hullo Paul, welcome aboard. You're going to struggle to find a more civilised forum, and as Anth says, we've had good reason to be impressed by LBP of late, so I wouldn't bother fireproofing your monitor.

    I'll start with a query/gripe: what is the legal situation of the little bit of pavement at the east end of the Broomhouse path? I have a vague memory of reading that the entry and egress points of RR or NCN paths trump normal pavement laws so that you can legally ride from one t'other, but I don't know if that's even right, and if so applicable to the Broomhouse.

    Chdot, our lovely admin here, took this photo of it which I dug up so you know where I mean:

    If that chap is doing the smart thing then he's crossing the pavement to drop down into the cycle lane. Would you be technically obliged to bust his punk ass for that?

    Posted 12 years ago #

  9. chdot
    Admin

    "Is that a LBP , CEC or something else group?"

    Paul can tell you more, but LBP & CEC primarily + LB and First, also Spokes and Uni of Ed.

    I've been to a few meetings. Because of CCE, they now have an HGV/driver to play with for the next part of the campaign. ('We' all know who that is!)

    Posted 12 years ago #

  10. Arellcat
    Moderator

    I own 3 bikes, and want another one.

    "The Force is strong with this one."

    Hello, Paul! I'm Arellcat and I own too many five bikes and two cats. I cycle most days, motorbike some days, and generally manage not to get beeped at through my ability to not filter through traffic as much as other people.

    Uberuce's question about the Gyle-Sighthill-Broomhouse-Stenhouse cycle path is a good one. I'd be interested to know what the legal cycle route is on that path westbound, between Bankhead Drive, Edinburgh Park Station and Lochside Avenue, because at the moment it seems to change daily.

    Posted 12 years ago #

  11. Min
    Member

    Why don't you charge motorists who run cyclists over through their own negligence?

    Why don't you charge motorists who commit road rage attacks on cyclists using their cars as weapons?

    Why does "cycle safety" revolve entirely around trying to force cyclists to wear protective clothing?

    Posted 12 years ago #

  12. wee folding bike
    Member

    Hmmmm, a wee bit harsh there perhaps.

    Airdrie, 7 bikes, 1 trike, 4 boys, no dog, 1 wife (so far).

    I prefer 1970s US cop shows to UK versions… except Morse.

    Ohhh, but T J Hooker stinks.

    Posted 12 years ago #

  13. SRD
    Moderator

    well, if we're going off-topic.[and to be fair, there's enough here already to deal with for a few days]..anyone seen 'Republic of Doyle'? it's a PI/Cop drama set in my home town.

    Posted 12 years ago #

  14. Nelly
    Member

    @SRD - didnt see that one, but The Guard (brendan gleeson and don cheadle) was fab !

    Posted 12 years ago #

  15. crowriver
    Member

    Welcome.

    Edinburgh, 2 young children, also 7 bikes (how did I get that many?), plus a couple of 'bike build/restoration' projects which will eventually become bikes too. I don't own any motorised transport, so cycling is transport as well as recreation/fitness.

    My question was about the recent 'education' campaign where you were warning cyclists and motorists about respecting red lights and ASLs. I wondered if/when that would move to enforcement phase? Also whether there were plans to target any junctions outside the city centre? Motorists seem to have got the idea about bus lanes now, but ASLs.....well the constant infringements test my patience sometimes, let's put it that way.

    Oh, I used to enjoy Hamish Macbeth. Z Cars and The Sweeney too.

    Posted 12 years ago #

  16. wee folding bike
    Member

    A lot of west coast ASLs are had to see, even on a bike, so a lick of paint might help.

    Does anyone actually lick paint onto a wall?

    Posted 12 years ago #

  17. Cycle PC
    Member

    Hi, just home after cycling home and thought I would check in. Thank you all for the warm welcome, I tried to avoid the obvious cliches when saying hello, bit it's good to see this opportunity didn't get missed.

    I will have a good look through the replies and queries and reply as soon as I am able.

    Min - The police take every report of careless / dangerous / anti-social driving very seriously and where evidence of at least two credible witnesses is available, drivers are charged an reported to the court. As far as cycle safety goes, I hope the recent activities and upcoming events will show this isn't the case. We would never force anyone to do anything. Helmets (am I allowed to ise this word?) and 'Hi-Vis' clothing are entirely optional.

    Posted 12 years ago #

  18. Cycle PC
    Member

    Wingpig - I would always report any incident that takes place on the road, whether witnessed by and/or involving yourself. If there is only the one witness, as you rightly say, the actions open to the police are limited. Sometimes more than one person may report the same incident though.

    There is no facility or mechanism to log reports against a vehicle unless some kind of formal action is taken.

    Posted 12 years ago #

  19. Cycle PC
    Member

    Uberuce - I will need to have a proper look at this however from having a quick look at the picture, there appears to be a cycleway on the footpath that continues after the sign. There seems to be an old bit of paint that comes to an end on the left of pole so I would hazard a guess that the sign has been left up, when it should have been taken down.

    As I say I will have a proper look and get back to you.

    Posted 12 years ago #

  20. chdot
    Admin

    "There is no facility or mechanism to log reports against a vehicle unless some kind of formal action is taken."

    That will disappoint (and perhaps surprise) some people here.

    Surely in other contexts police do record 'intelligence' against vehicles?

    Posted 12 years ago #

  21. davey2wheels
    Member

    Hi Paul
    The report an incident link you provided looks like one you guys use from within the forces network. Is there a proper fully qualified domain name one to use on the internet?

    Posted 12 years ago #

  22. Cycle PC
    Member

    Shuggiet - As Chdot says, there are quite a few organisations sitting at the table. It was started by Lothian and Borders Road Safety officers, and quickly grew to involve Safer Neighbourhood Team officers, myself from Road Policing, CEC, Lothian Buses,First Bus, SPOKES, Bikestation, Edinburgh University, and other interested parties such as L&B Fire Service and NHS Lothian.

    What we are trying to do is engage with cyclists and motorists through education to raise awareness and increase mutual respect.

    Posted 12 years ago #

  23. Cycle PC
    Member

    Sorry, was at work when I did that,

    http://www.lbp.police.uk/contact_us.aspx

    This should work

    Posted 12 years ago #

  24. Cycle PC
    Member

    Arellcat - I have seen the posts on this bit of road and will need to have a proper look before commenting.

    Posted 12 years ago #

  25. Cycle PC
    Member

    Crowriver - Enforcement is being phased in at the moment.

    Posted 12 years ago #

  26. Cycle PC
    Member

    Wee folding bike -

    A lot of west coast ASLs are had to see, even on a bike, so a lick of paint might help.

    Not sure what you mean by 'west coast'. I am aware that CEC are looking at what lines need re-painted and there is an ongoing program to address this.

    Posted 12 years ago #

  27. ruggtomcat
    Member

    Exiting Bike Chases!!

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    Posted 12 years ago #

  28. wee folding bike
    Member

    PC,

    It's west coast because I live in Airdrie, more wild west than mysterious east. I do sometimes stray over there to the land of shops down one side of the street but mostly I'm over here with the Apache, Comanche and Iroquois. I may watch too many movies starring the Duke.

    Strathclyde polis have had a word with people when I have reported incidents. They couldn't do any more than that but I appreciated it all the same.

    Chips are for vinegar, not sauce.

    Posted 12 years ago #

  29. Tom
    Member

    Welome Cycle PC. I also own three bikes and a dog and have children though they keep growing out of the bikes I buy for them.

    My question to you is what scope is there for cyclists (or anyone) to move badly positioned temporary road-works signs or to disagree with people operating stop/go signs? Would these be considered as serious an offence as moving police cones?

    Posted 12 years ago #

  30. Roibeard
    Member

    I would always report any incident

    Sometimes more than one person may report the same incident

    There is no facility or mechanism to log reports against a vehicle unless some kind of formal action is taken.

    I'm not sure I follow this. If there isn't a mechanism to log reports against a vehicle without formal action, and presumably formal action isn't taken unless there are at least two credible witnesses, then how do individual reports help? Unless they arrive simultaneously, the witness reports won't be even logged.

    There does appear to be a great deal of inconsistency in L&BP on this - when I've phoned up after a near miss, I've had:

    • The registered keeper contacted to advise them that a complaint has been made
    • I've been asked to come in in person and make a report - and that report has been taken
    • I've been asked to come in in person and make a report - and been told at the station that whilst no action could be taken, it would be logged against the vehicle
    • I've been asked to come in in person and make a report - and been told at the station that no report could be made

    Next time, I'll attempt to get witnesses...

    I suppose it's realistic to assume no action - there are insufficient police resources so we have to rely on road users behaving themselves (cf 20mph zones). The best we can hope for is short term enforcement such as that currently surrounding ASLs.

    It's why we pedalled on parliament...

    Robert

    Posted 12 years ago #

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