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Hello from Cycle PC

(85 posts)

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  1. cc
    Member

    Hi Cycle PC,

    Welcome from me too.

    The number one thing I'd like to see the police doing to help bicycle users in Edinburgh is enforce the 20mph speed limit, especially in Causewayside & Ratcliffe Terrace. The section of those roads with the 20mph limit is narrow and busy with bicycles, parked cars, delivery vans, buses, pedestrians, supermarket shoppers and lots of motorised through traffic - a very dangerous mix. My subjective experience is that a large proportion of the traffic goes at significantly more than 20mph, and that the police is doing nothing to stop this speeding. Could the police please help to slow down the traffic on this road?

    Posted 12 years ago #

  2. ruggtomcat
    Member

    Im not surprised CPC (got his own TLA) has to hang fire, I would not like the keys to that account!

    Posted 12 years ago #

  3. SRD
    Moderator

    Any chance of some ASZ enforcement near Commie Pool? I came across East Preston St this morning, stopped in ASZ to turn left, and had private hire car pull up into ASZ beside me. I politely told him that he shouldn't be there and got an earful of abuse. By the time the lights changed there were two other female cyclists who ought to have been in the box beside me - one over the stopline in front of him and one slightly behind and to the left, and some others further back behind him. Makes a mockery of the whole thing.

    Posted 12 years ago #

  4. minus six
    Member

    I note that the de facto ASL positioning rule for motor vehicles of all types in Edinburgh is to have your front wheels fully over the line and within the ASL.

    Is this practise sufficient to confer plausible immunity, like the old "hazard exempts" ruse?

    Posted 12 years ago #

  5. minus six
    Member

    Just spotted a Cycle Cop on George IV Bridge, operating in what I could only describe as "local mode"

    Saddle was waaaaay too low down for rider efficiency, and pedalling furiously in wrong gear.

    Might this be a new recruit out on their first ride?

    Or perhaps practising style and technique to blend in for undercover operations?

    Posted 12 years ago #

  6. steveo
    Member

    Ride it like its stolen!

    Posted 12 years ago #

  7. minus six
    Member

    ... and the bulky yellow jacket and full length overtrousers look mighty uncomfortable, in this weather

    bet that the Met cyclists get decent summer wear provided, down in that London...

    Posted 12 years ago #

  8. lionfish
    Member

    Someone earlier mentioned undercover policing. It would be awesome if some police ride non-police looking bike (and wear 'civilian' clothes) for an hour or two around Edinburgh: You'll catch several crazy drivers in that time I'd have thought (e.g. at least a punishment pass or two). Even better would be to alert drivers that the police are doing this (via a press release). Then the crazy drivers won't know who to punishment pass/drive off the road/shout abuse at.

    Welcome to the forum (if you're allowed back!)

    Posted 12 years ago #

  9. Min
    Member

    That would be great but I suspect they would not be allowed to stop anyone whilst undercover. That is the case for car polis for sure, there was a recent case where they chased a guy in an unmarked car - he was so worried he rang the Police!

    Posted 12 years ago #

  10. Uberuce
    Member

    If and when you get the go-ahead from the brass, Paul:

    I've get the impression from the experiences of David Brennan and others that helmet cam footage by itself doesn't seem to make incidents an open and shut case.

    Is this a perceived deficiency of helmet cams themselves?

    If so, what steps could manufacturers take to make their products legally admissible?

    If it is instead a legal weakness in procedure being followed by the owner of the camera during between shooting the footage and submitting it, what steps should be taken to ensure one's footage is admissible?

    Posted 12 years ago #

  11. Dave
    Member

    There have been a few convictions (at least in England) now as a result of camera footage. My impression is more that the police aren't interested in following up on bike collisions unless someone ends up in the New Royal.

    Case in point - I was hit by an oncoming right-turning driver in the middle of the day. Even worse, it was a hit and run, but two motorists stopped, provided their cards and agreed to witness.

    As far as I'm aware the driver was never even interviewed.

    I learned a few lessons from that - the main one being if you're knocked off, however pumped you are at the time, remain on the ground and insist that the police and ambulance attend!

    Posted 12 years ago #

  12. Cycle PC
    Member

    Hello,

    Apologies for the delay, but everything has now been put in place to allow my continued involvement.

    I will endeavour to get through all the queries above and post replies as soon as I am able.

    Thank you all again for your welcome and support.

    Posted 12 years ago #

  13. chdot
    Admin

    Welcome, back!

    This might 'interest' - not expecting you to do anything, should be all in hand.

    Posted 12 years ago #

  14. Darkerside
    Member

    Welcome back and good luck with the queries! We have lots, but then we're also generally near cake and tea, so every cloud/silver lining and all.

    Re the undercover cycling stuff mentioned above, there's a chunk of IPMBA on it, so it's definitely an accepted technique on the other side of the water. (IPMBA is the American police cycling body who provided training material for UK police/ambulance cycling up until the UK's Public Safety Cycling course got off the ground)

    Admittedly the ambulance version of the course tends to skip over plain clothes work, so I can't really comment further :p The textbook is highly entertaining though, and includes a bizarre section on the most stable pistol firing positions when mounted.

    Posted 12 years ago #

  15. Cyclist
    Member

    Do you still have a bike?

    http://www.scotsman.com/news/three-police-bikes-stolen-1-2349043

    Posted 12 years ago #

  16. Kirst
    Member

    Hello Mr Policeman.

    I'm Kirsten, not married (in a long-distance relationship), no cats, no kids, lots of plants and a few mice (who are not welcome). I am not cycling much at the moment because I came off on ice just before Christmas, broke a bone in my pelvis, and it's still not right.

    I would like to ask if it is some sort of police rule that St Leonards police station has to arrest really noisy people on Sunday nights at bed time and then let them shout and bawl for a couple of hours while the local residents (eg me) are trying to sleep. That might not be part of your remit though ;-)

    Posted 12 years ago #

  17. Dave
    Member

    Cycle PC - you probably don't want to get involved in a specific incident, but regarding this hit and run on a member of this forum in general terms only, it might be interesting if you could outline the proper steps that should be taken from the police point of view;

    - in a case of failing to stop / report, is there a time limit on how long the victim has to report the incident?

    - how many witnesses are needed, if any, i.e. is there any point reporting a crash where just you and the driver are involved without corroboration?

    - assuming it goes as far as a statement being taken, then you hear nothing. And nothing, and nothing... how often should the victim try to find out what's going on? What's the best way of doing this?

    - Are there time limits for prosecution etc. that mean the victim should be careful not to let an investigation slide until the perpetrator is beyond justice?

    Probably there are loads more, but that's a starter that I think would be valuable to everyone here.

    Posted 12 years ago #

  18. Cycle PC
    Member

    Fimm - "Two questions:

    1) Are you aware of the Met. Police's RoadSafe scheme? http://www.met.police.uk/roadsafelondon/
    Is this something that could be considered for the Lothain and Borders force?

    2) What advice do you have for someone reporting an incident to the police?"

    I am aware of the Met's scheme and have been in communication with officers from London, and have had a look at their 'Roadsafe' website, and hope to use some of the material in future.

    If you are reporting an incident to the police, as much detail as possible should be reported e.g. times, locus, speed, details of vehicle, description of driver.

    Posted 12 years ago #

  19. Cycle PC
    Member

    mgj - "OK, I'll bite and ask a question; do you think that if as a result of the Carloway review there is the removal of the need for corroboration there will be more opportunity for cyclists to report road traffic offences and have those progressed into reports to the fiscal?"

    The Carloway Review is an interesting document and puts forward a number of recommendations, one of which refers to corroboration, namely: -

    - the current requirement for corroboration in criminal cases be abolished; and

    - in solemn prosecutions where there is no corroboration of testimony, there should be no requirement on the judge to warn the jury of any dangers perceived purely as a consequence of the absence of such corroboration.

    If these recommendatinos are implemented in full, then yes, there will be more opportunity for cases involving a single witness to progress to court.

    Posted 12 years ago #

  20. Cycle PC
    Member

    Wingpig - "When the Bicycle Police are doing their bicycle-specific policing, do they do things like just ride around and along popular cycle-commuting routes during the rush hours as if they were a normal bicycle commuter commuting to their workplace, either specifically in order to police the sort of unpleasant vehicle interactions to which cyclists are particularly subject or just to act as a visible warning against infringements of traffic laws?"

    Basically, yes and yes, it depends on what their specific task is for that particular day. The bicycles are used by our Safer Neighbourhood Teams and are used just as much for non cycling specific activities.

    Posted 12 years ago #

  21. Cycle PC
    Member

    Uberuce and Dave RE cameras.

    Camera footage can, and has been used. There is no difinitive guide to what is and what is not reported. Each incident would have to be reported and then reviewed on its own merits.

    Posted 12 years ago #

  22. Kenny
    Member

    Cycle PC: Greetings from myself. I'm also relatively new to the forum, male, married, 3 daughters, just the 2 bikes, although the kids have one each too. Wife can't cycle to save herself.

    Re: the camera footage, I've had a couple of incidents caught on high def video using a Contour+ camera, and one I took into Drylaw station for your colleagues to view. I was a little surprised that the only action they could take based on the incident was to go have a word with the culprit, which they did and he supposedly offered an apology. The question I have, which I suspect is really somewhat rhetorical, is "do you have to be actually hit by a car for the police to do anything". My two incidents caught on camera were clear examples of dangerous driving, either of which would have seriously injured me if I hadn't been exceptionally fast on my brakes. As I say, I suspect the answer is much the same as your last response: "each incident would have to be reviewed on its own merits". But I thought I'd ask.

    That all said, my actual question is simpler: if I catch an incident on video, and upload it to the internet somewhere, am I able to report the incident to the police by sending an email or posting a message to you guys somehow, including the link to the video so you can watch at your leisure? Or are your procedures such that I do need to get my ass down to the local nick to show you the video on my iPhone?

    Posted 12 years ago #

  23. Cycle PC
    Member

    mkns - If any incident is caught on a device of some kind, the best thing to do would be to get it on to a computer and/or digital media of some kind (DVD, CD-Rom).

    Report the incident to the police through one of the normal channels, making mention of the fact that the incident has been recorded.

    Then as you say, the incident would be looked at by officers and action taken, if applicable.

    It is impossible for me to say what kind of incident would merit a certain level of action.

    Posted 12 years ago #

  24. Kenny
    Member

    So ultimately my question is "what is a normal channel" - this is the thing that I need clarification on. The amount of dangerous driving that I witness on my commutes to and from work is such that I could predict needing to be visiting a police station every fortnight if that was the only "normal channel" that existed. Can you therefore identify for us which channels are open to us when we have such videos of incidents?

    I also don't see the need to put it on DVD or CD-ROM if it's on the internet, since I can give you a URL to view the video? Or do the police refuse to accept video evidence unless it has been burned to physical media for some reason?

    Posted 12 years ago #

  25. gembo
    Member

    @mkns - we could link this thread to the risky thread and to the thread where alanr is having to push the crime perpetrated against him to get the police to proceed? When there is a crime of dangerous driving perpetrated against a cyclist it is likely to be more serious than the continuous stream of dangerous driving occurring on the roads every day, against other drivers. this is my view, and one shared by several on this forum, however, it is not the view of the police because we do to have strict liability in the UK. If we did we would be in a better position. It may be the case that If we can produce a steady flow of DVDs of dangerous driving against cyclists and hand these in to the police station then we can combine this with a campaign to achieve strict liability. However, the motor industry has worked hard to portray the lethal business of driving as a routine, normal, daily activity so I wouldn't bet on it. Why do other countries have strict liability and we don't?

    Posted 12 years ago #

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