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OT: EGIP budget cut announced

(34 posts)

12

  1. crowriver
    Member

    So, 300 million plus slashed from the EGIP rail programme. Well I suppose all those motorways, bypasses and trunk roads need the cash, eh?

    Mr Brown said the Scottish government had "revamped" the plans to deliver savings of more than £300m.
    The reduced budget will mean that there will be no immediate increase in frequency of services between Glasgow and Edinburgh.
    The planned electrification of Dunblane/Alloa services will also not be delivered in this phase of improvements.

    These delays were criticised by the sustainable transport alliance, Transform Scotland.
    Director Colin Howden said: "Today's announcement is merely a restatement of promises that the Scottish government has already made.
    "What the government is actually announcing today is cuts to the Scotland's flagship rail project.
    "Instead of the previously-promised six trains per hour, we're now only going to get four trains per hour. Furthermore, electrification will no longer reach Dunblane and Alloa.
    "If completing these further phases is dependent on a new high-speed line reaching Scotland then the government is simply kicking these previously-promised investments into the long grass."
    The Scottish Chambers of Commerce welcomed progress towards the electrification of the Glasgow to Edinburgh line but said the Scottish government's decision "to implement only a part of its original plans" was "disappointing".
    Chief executive Liz Cameron said: "Whilst improvements in journey time, station facilities and the rapid acceleration of wi-fi capabilities in the ScotRail fleet are extremely welcome, EGIP was a project which had the potential to be transformational in terms of its impact on connectivity across central Scotland and, sadly, it looks as though this potential may fail to be realised.
    "The new plans that have been announced fail to achieve the improvements in journey times that have been promised, fail to guarantee the pledged electrification of the network to Stirling and Dunblane and fail to deliver the six trains per hour between Glasgow and Edinburgh that business travellers have been demanding."

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-glasgow-west-18690764

    Posted 12 years ago #

  2. chdot
    Admin

    "

    Network Rail EGIP (@NetworkRailEGIP)
    04/07/2012 20:40
    @clc5clc5_chris Yet to define what this AM's TS announcement means in terms of project content and delivery timescale. Will clarify asap.

    "

    Posted 12 years ago #

  3. sallyhinch
    Member

    So wait, they found £40 million for the M74 and £20million for the A75 and they're cutting train investment by £300 million? I guess that tells us where the government's priorities really lie...

    Posted 12 years ago #

  4. kaputnik
    Moderator

    I read all the EGIp proposals ages back I think what this means is they've gone with an even cheaper, less comprehensive version of the cheapest and least comprehensive proposal originally laid down.

    There's always money for roads. Note that capacity being increased on the Motorway and trunk-road network everywhere, but hardly so on the rail network. If we did the latter, we wouldn't need to do the former.

    Colin Howden has hit the nail on the head with his response, and I think the BBC headline "Intercity rail journey to be cut" is more apt than they ever imagined.

    Posted 12 years ago #

  5. crowriver
    Member

    Let's remind ourselves of the governments priorities from 2011. Here they are, note not a single mention of cycling. Infrastructure Investment Plan 2011: 3. WHAT WE WILL INVEST IN

    Here's where the money is coming from and when (like a cashflow projection): ANNEX B: PROJECTED PROJECT PIPELINE

    Here's the detail, including (ballpark) budgets. The order is very telling. Top five are Forth bridge, High Speed Rail, EGIP, A90 Aberdeen bypass, A90 (also Aberdeenshire). Note no money set aside for 'low carbon transport', or maybe the money's so tiny it doesn't merit mention: ANNEX C: ADDITIONAL DETAIL ON INVESTMENTS IN THE PROJECTED PIPELINE

    Posted 12 years ago #

  6. cb
    Member

    Who cares about electrification of the Dunblane line when we're going to a get a mezzanine level food court at Glasgow Queen Street.

    Posted 12 years ago #

  7. chdot
    Admin

    "Who cares about electrification of the Dunblane line when we're going to a get a mezzanine level food court at Glasgow Queen Street."

    It's a good point - though 'obviously' the 'retail' will make money.

    Whether 'the railways' spend a disproportionate of time/effort on 'property development' (especially in London) is another matter - as is the question of how risks/rewards are shared.

    Not new of course, North Berwick station became a carpark.

    Posted 12 years ago #

  8. chdot
    Admin

    "Key rail link hits the buffers after £1bn budget cut"

    "
    The original £1 billion electrification project promised six trains an hour on the main line between the two cities, a journey time down to just 35 minutes and easy access to the airport by switching to the tram at the new Edinburgh Gateway station at Gogar.

    But the revised scheme unveiled by Transport Minister Keith Brown yesterday has slashed £350 million from the investment, which means there will only be four trains an hour, the journey time will be 40 minutes and trains from the west can no longer use the Gateway station.

    A crucial piece of extra track – known as the “Dalmeny chord” – to allow trains from Glasgow to call at the Gateway station will no longer be built.

    City transport convener Lesley Hinds said today there had been no consultation with the council on the move.

    "

    http://m.scotsman.com/edinburgh-evening-news/key-rail-link-hits-the-buffers-after-1bn-budget-cut-1-2393816

    Posted 12 years ago #

  9. chdot
    Admin

    "ScotRail's coasting trains plan 'will save fuel' "

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-18723220

    Posted 12 years ago #

  10. crowriver
    Member

    Wheeeeee!

    I like the idea of freewheeling trains.

    Posted 12 years ago #

  11. cb
    Member

    It's an impressive bit of freewheeling. Gleneagles is only about 125m asl. The first half of the way to Perth is steadily downhill, but after that it looks pretty much flat.

    Are trains really that good at coasting?

    Posted 12 years ago #

  12. chdot
    Admin

    "

    A COMMUNITY has been left in limbo after a key rail project was put on hold.

    Half a dozen homeowners, most of whom have lived in the area for more than 30 years, had already had to face up to the prospect of losing their homes because of the proposed new railway link through land near Dalmeny.

    But now the Scottish Government has abandoned plans to build the line – known as the Dalmeny chord – any time soon.

    "

    http://www.scotsman.com/edinburgh-evening-news/transport/residents-in-limbo-as-rail-link-plans-put-on-hold-1-2402114

    Posted 12 years ago #

  13. cb
    Member

    http://www.scotsman.com/news/transport/bosses-power-on-with-works-1-2410112

    "Network Rail confirmed the contract to raise the height of 28 rail bridges to allow the erection of electric overhead wires will continue, even though only ten are on routes still due to be electrified."

    Hopefully won't be wasted work.

    Posted 12 years ago #

  14. steveo
    Member

    Are trains really that good at coasting?

    They are very heavy and have an excellent friction coefficient so they have a lot of kinetic energy stored up and of the main resisting forces, air friction and rail friction, the friction at the rails is very low.

    Posted 12 years ago #

  15. kaputnik
    Moderator

    Are trains really that good at coasting?

    Very good. In fact if you're on a train on the flat, you'll notice that the engine does a lot of work accelerating the train and once it is up to speed effectively slips back to idling, just putting in enough work to overcome the friction. Steel wheel on steel rail has very low friction. The savings in this scheme won't be massive, as currently the engine will be doing very little work anyway, the gearbox is just being put in neutral - the engine still has to run to provide compressed air for braking and to generate the onboard electrical supply.

    Indeed with heavier trains (expresses/ high speed and freight), so efficient are they at building up speed on a downhill when coasting, getting the train not to overspeed is often more of a problem. If you look at pictures of the big American freight locomotives, they have "wing" structures along the roof, which are the cooling vents for huge banks of resistors/rheostats known as dynamic brakes, where the electric motors in the wheels are used as a brake, generating current on a downhill which is passed through the resistors and lost to the atmosphere as heat. It won't stop the train, but it will allow it to cruise at speed without wearing down mechanical brake blocks.

    Electric locomotives can pass current back through the wire/3rd rail when doing this, known as regenerative braking.

    In days of yore, freight trains would slow to a crawl at the top of a downhill and the guard would jump out, knocking the mechanical brakes on enough wagons to stop the train running away - the number needed to apply based on weight of the load it was carrying. They also required a brake (or guard's) wagon which provided additional braking force at the rear of the train.

    So yes, get a train moving on a flat or downhill and then the main concern is stopping it, rather than keeping it going.

    Posted 12 years ago #

  16. cb
    Member

    http://www.alloaadvertiser.com/news/councilnews/articles/2012/10/10/437366-plans-to-electrify-on-track-/

    "
    Concerns had been raised that Alloa, along with Stirling and Dunblane, was no longer a part of the multi-million pound project following an announcement in the summer by Transport Minister Keith Brown regarding the £650m project.

    However, following a meeting between senior Clackmannanshire Council officers and officials from Transport Scotland, the council has been reassured that the government is still on track to deliver electrification of the network, including Alloa, albeit later than had been originally planned.
    "

    Not sure if this now comes under the EGIP work?

    Anyone know timescales?

    Posted 12 years ago #

  17. crowriver
    Member

    Jam tomorrow is still "on track".

    Posted 12 years ago #

  18. Morningsider
    Member

    cb - no timescales for Alloa electrification are available at present. It will certainly be post 2016, when EGIP is due to be up and running, and is likely to be many years into the future. I suppose it doesn't hurt that Keith Brown was leader of Clackmannanshire Council, might push it up the list a bit.

    Posted 12 years ago #

  19. kaputnik
    Moderator

    @cb from the EGIP website;

    The programme will significantly improve connections, journey times and service opportunities between Edinburgh and Glasgow via all routes as well as to Alloa, Dunblane and Stirling from Scotland's largest cities. Subject to consultation and approval by the Scottish Government this will be delivered by 2016.

    Posted 12 years ago #

  20. cb
    Member

    They've already raised the height of a footbridge that nobody uses leading into an empty field, just north of Plean, so they're almost there.

    Posted 12 years ago #

  21. Morningsider
    Member

    Kaputnik - the EGIP website is out of date. It hasn't been changed since the Scottish Government announced the filleting of the EGIP project in July. Details:

    http://www.transportscotland.gov.uk/news/Edinburgh-Glasgow-Rail-Improvement-Programme

    Posted 12 years ago #

  22. cb
    Member

    "Full steam ahead" is an amusing title for a story on a rail modernisation project. (Mind you, I suppose electric trains in this country are mostly powered by steam).

    Posted 12 years ago #

  23. chdot
    Admin

    "
    Alastair Dalton (@AlastairDalton)
    12/11/2012 09:12
    S Gov plans under-30 mins high-speed Edin-Gla rail link in 12 years, after scrapping 35 min link in 4 years...

    "

    http://www.eveningtimes.co.uk/mobile/news/its-glasgow-edinburgh-at-140mph-in-30-mins-106868n.19386308

    Posted 12 years ago #

  24. chdot
    Admin

    From above link -

    "
    The current travelling times for the trip are 50-55 minutes. A £650million programme to electrify the whole route is already under way and is expected to reduce journey times by 10 minutes.

    But the plan unveiled today is separate because it will require building a completely new line.

    "

    ?????

    Much as I prefer rail spending to new bypasses/bridges, this is all about the problem of politicians who only understand BIG projects/initiatives/spending other people's money/ ribbon cutting opportunities.

    Posted 12 years ago #

  25. chdot
    Admin

    Even if the steel for the rails and the rolling stock and workforce were sourced within Scotland it would be economically questionable.

    Though as it 'would be' cheaper than the questionable tram the whole thing is questionably questionable.

    Maybe passengers will sit at pedal-powered electricity generators so that they can get some active travel so that the SG can say they are increasing that budget...

    EDIT

    Sorry, the £650m is the current spend to 'save' 10 mins.

    This kite flying is in uncosted.

    Posted 12 years ago #

  26. chdot
    Admin

    "
    Damien Henderson (@DamienHenderson)
    08/11/2012 11:16
    Appalling spin by Scottish Government this week in implying that Borders Railway would cost £294m - £54m short of actual budget

    "

    Posted 12 years ago #

  27. crowriver
    Member

    Great news! All citizens of Glasburgh will receive free jam!

    A 500g jar of finest strawberry preserve will be delivered to each household in 2026, a government minister said. The extremely generous gift will require the construction of a huge new jam factory somewhere in the central belt. A new 15 lane motorway will also be needed to transport berries from Tayside and Angus to the new plant.

    No details of the site for the factory, nor the route of the motorway have been thought about yet. The plans are uncosted, but the minister did produce the back of an envelope, showing a hastily scribbled figure of £99 trillion, which represents the economic benefit to Scotland from realising this amazing project.

    Posted 12 years ago #

  28. PS
    Member

    Nah, this is SNP's gambit to try to force Westminster to commit to a high speed line all the way up to the border.

    This would be the "start building at both ends" approach.

    Any business case would be dependent on a UK-wide approach. Do we do that any more now transport responsibility is devolved?

    Posted 12 years ago #

  29. chdot
    Admin

    "
    Alastair Dalton (@AlastairDalton)
    12/11/2012 21:59
    2007 S Gov: Edin-Gla bullet train plan axed: £7bn, poor VFM, better to upgrade existing line. 6/12: S Gov axes latter.

    http://www.scotsman.com/news/scottish-news/top-stories/central-belt-bullet-train-plan-shunted-into-a-siding-1-676368

    "

    Posted 12 years ago #

  30. chdot
    Admin

    Not a fan of Brian Wilson, but -

    "

    GRANDIOSE announcements divert attention from a failure to deliver on more realistic public projects, writes Brian Wilson

    Television cameras love trains – which must explain why so much uncritical coverage was accorded by our national broadcasters to this week’s nonsense about cutting journey times between Glasgow and Edinburgh to half an hour.

    "

    http://www.scotsman.com/the-scotsman/opinion/comment/brian-wilson-side-tracked-from-the-real-priority-1-2631495

    Posted 12 years ago #

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