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"Great Ideas and Initiatives for the Borders Railway"

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  1. cb
    Member

    The car park at Tweedbank (which is huge) was overflowing yesterday (cars parked on verges/pavements/all over the place) mid afternoon, just before one of the steam specials (Tornado) was due to depart.

    Overheard some locals grumbling about the lack of toilet facilities at the station.

    Another observation was the fairly narrow strip of path (perhaps 1.5m?) running by the station fence (which, pre-railway, was a NEPN sized path). But in fairness they have had to squeeze in to tracks and a platform at this point and there *is* still a path.

    Later in the afternoon a Border's Rail 'ambassador' at Stow station told us that many of the trains she had seen were standing room only, or couldn't accommodate new passengers.

    However there were seats on the 4pm to Edinburgh and even the couple with bikes got on.

    Posted 9 years ago #

  2. amir
    Member

    @kaputnik - you need to follow Dalhousie Road past Hardengreen House and turn right up the bumpy lane past the cottages (NCN 1).

    That route was open but still a big diversion. Apparently someone (who?) follow the path from Tesco side of the station footbridge through to Tesco and/or Bonnyrigg. This does look like it could be wrapped up quite quickly but I am not sure that it will be - depends on priority that they (who?) are willing to put on pedestrians.

    Posted 9 years ago #

  3. kaputnik
    Moderator

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-south-scotland-34255933

    Borders Railway: Extra carriage bid to tackle overcrowding

    Scotrail have either been naïve or overly pessimistic about potential passenger numbers. Or both.

    It's not a ringing endorsement of the build the route first, sort out some trains for it later approach that they've taken.

    Posted 9 years ago #

  4. chdot
    Admin

    "It's not a ringing endorsement of the build the route first, sort out some trains for it later approach that they've taken."

    I don't want to be 'fair' to anyone but the current SR isn't quite the same as the version that was involved in the Border Railway planning.

    However, Abelio made all the rights noises about 'improving things' before and just after they took over.

    I suspect some of the new owners didn't understand the state of the 'rolling stock market' in the UK - but the continuing management people must.

    It's slightly hard to believe that there is no 'spare' rolling stock and locos anywhere in the UK - just might not be 'affordable'.

    The Fife circle got a couple of 6 coach sets cobbled together - which go to and from Motherwell (empty) between main commute times.

    Posted 9 years ago #

  5. chdot
    Admin

    "Scotrail have either been naïve or overly pessimistic about potential passenger numbers. Or both."

    Yes -

    "

    However, it said the demand in recent days - particularly from families "making a day of it" at weekends - had been considerable.

    "

    we may have found a way to temporarily double the number of carriages on a Sunday, and aim to do the same on Saturdays during peak times.

    "

    So they promoted it as a 'tourist attraction' and forgot about weekends(?) -

    as well as not providing enough capacity at peak commute times.

    Posted 9 years ago #

  6. kaputnik
    Moderator

    It's indicative of just how tight rolling stock availability is that many operators are recommissioning 1960s and 1970s Mk. 2 and Mk. 3 carriage sets to provide either peak time capacity (i.e. Fife Cirle) or new services with a light schedule or outside their core franchise services e.g. Chiltern Railways on the Chiltern Mainline, DRS on the Cumbrian Coast line, Arriva Wales on Cardiff to Holyhead service. These are pulled by a variety of either unsuitablly powerful new freight locos (Scotrail, Chiltern, class 68; Arriva class 67) or refurbished 1960s "classic" diesels (which are actually far better matched to their loads and service demands than their modern cousins).

    Posted 9 years ago #

  7. chdot
    Admin

    "It's indicative of just how tight rolling stock availability is"

    Yes.

    So, which part of the market can't make a profit by building/buying new stock??

    It's unfortunate that the break-up of BR led to a reduction in manufacturing capacity, but there's plenty off-shore - perhaps even in Abelio's homeland. Plenty in Spain where the sainted trams came from.

    Might even be some redundant coaches lying around - they could become a tourist attraction...

    Posted 9 years ago #

  8. chdot
    Admin

    Re-furbish these?

    http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/three-nazi-gold-treasure-trains-6434634

    Posted 9 years ago #

  9. kaputnik
    Moderator

    ut there's plenty off-shore - perhaps even in Abelio's homeland. Plenty in Spain where the sainted trams came from.

    The Class 67s were built in Spain using the innards of an American EMD design.
    The Class 68s are built in Spain by a German company. Again the engines are American.
    Scotrail's newest trains are the Class 380 (as seen on North Berwick services), these are built by Siemens in Germany. The newest order is for the EGIP AT200 stock, built by Hitachi in Japan initially and later moving to the IEP works in County Durham.

    Scotland never had much of an industrial base building rolling stock (not including Steam locomotives). Pressed Steel used to make some units in Linwood, this plant was later absorbed by Rootes and repurposed for Hillman Imp production. Hunslet-Barclay in Kilmarnock built some "Pacer" units in the 1980s using bus body components provided by Walter Alexander in Falkirk, but this was a one-off exercise and we should count ourselves lucky that the product never caught on in Scotland.

    Posted 9 years ago #

  10. chdot
    Admin

    Aye, but why doesn't *someone* - Transport Scotland??? - buy some more coaches?

    Posted 9 years ago #

  11. kaputnik
    Moderator

    don't be silly. Nobody "buys" coaches anymore. They asset manage them.

    Posted 9 years ago #

  12. chdot
    Admin

    That's true.

    And part of the problem.

    And things are supposed to be different in Scotland.

    And

    Posted 9 years ago #

  13. amir
    Member

    TBH I am most shocked by this:

    "We are also planning to add carriages in the short term to one particularly busy service, the 16:24 from Edinburgh - Tweedbank which is key for commuters."

    16:24!!!

    Posted 9 years ago #

  14. chdot
    Admin

    Posted 9 years ago #

  15. chdot
    Admin

    "

    ScotRail operator Abellio has announced plans to add up to 100 new train drivers across the country.

    New driver roles are being created in Aberdeen, Ayr, Bathgate, Edinburgh, Glasgow, Gourock, Helensburgh, Inverness, Perth, Stirling and Tweedbank.

    "

    http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/business/business-news/scotrail-add-100-new-train-6460299

    Posted 9 years ago #

  16. chdot
    Admin

    "

    @SpokesLothian: Spokes member @AlisonJohnstone tries @BordersRailway w #bicycle!

    http://t.co/R1gUxFl6pV

    @CyclingEdin @midgov @ianbaxter_green @John_Lauder

    "

    Posted 9 years ago #

  17. jdanielp
    Member

    My girlfriend and I tried out the route on Sunday with our bikes. It appeared that a 'doubled up' service was running in both directions and we had no trouble getting on; 10:11 out (two folded Bromptons in the same carriage) and 16:45 back (just ours). We cycled to Innerleithen and back with a nice lunch at the Whistle Stop Cafe. Fun!

    Posted 9 years ago #

  18. chdot
    Admin

    Well for this one the rails are all there!

    "

    Closing Date for Online Petition:

    13 October 2015 Calling on the Scottish Parliament to urge the Scottish Government to release funding for and establish passenger rail platforms at: Crossford; Cairneyhill; Torryburn; Valleyfield; Culross and Kincardine; thereby linking Stirling to the Fife Circle.

    http://www.scottish.parliament.uk/GettingInvolved/Petitions/ForthCircleRailLine

    "

    (Must be cheaper than the Borders line - and new Forth bridge.)

    Posted 9 years ago #

  19. LaidBack
    Member

    Busy with bikes last Sunday - our bike with two others on the 3.45 from Tweedbank. Were another four on train elsewhere I reckon.

    Quetzal to Tweedbank by LaidBackBikes, on Flickr

    People even got on at Stow. We did a great ride / short walk(!) over from Stow on day before (Sat) at around 5pm.

    Posted 9 years ago #

  20. slowcoach
    Member

    "ScotRail has confirmed that steam train toilets are not fitted with tanks to collect human effluent."
    Midlothian Advertiser

    Posted 9 years ago #

  21. crowriver
    Member

    Borders Railway service ‘miserable’, campaigners say

    http://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/news/borders-railway-service-miserable-campaigners-say-1-3964218

    Must admit I haven't even travelled on it yet. Is it really that bad? Hard to believe...

    Posted 8 years ago #

  22. kaputnik
    Moderator

    Anecdotally, and "teething troubles" aside, it's probably of a quality on-par with the Fife Circle at least (which isn't saying much, I know!)

    It just doesn't seem to be capable of servicing the actual number of users. The miserably low passenger projections are biting it in the bum. The business case planners have a lot to answer for!

    Given the type, size, age and reliability of the trains being used, and that they are not yet refurbished and given the fairly light service schedule, we shouldn't really be surprised.

    Posted 8 years ago #

  23. The Boy
    Member

    Headline in not an entirely accurate indicator of article content shocker.

    Posted 8 years ago #

  24. amir
    Member

    "Borders Railway passes 500,000 passenger mark"

    "The Borders Railway between Tweedbank and Edinburgh has passed the 500,000 passenger mark less than five months after it opened.
    The line opened to the public in September last year.
    More than 125,000 people used it in its first month and the total has now gone past half a million.
    Transport Minister Derek Mackay was at Edinburgh's Waverley Station for an event to mark the landmark figure being reached.
    Before the multi-million pound line opened, forecasters predicted it would carry almost 650,000 passengers a year.
    It is currently on course to exceed that figure by quite some margin in its first year of operation"

    A success story or a failure in planning?

    Lots of new houses built in Midlothian. Trains packed. Are the roads around Midlothian more congested or not? (I think that they are). What about bus use? Is anyone looking at this holistically?

    Posted 8 years ago #

  25. kaputnik
    Moderator

    All the most recent rail schemes in Scotland seem to have been outrageously successful based on the initial projections, which for whatever reason where unaccurately low for potential usage.

    Perhaps those writing the business cases were rail pessimists?

    Unfortunately what it means is that the Government feels justified to pare back the scheme to the bare bones, removing a lot of the potential line capacity by removing double line sections and also doing stupid stuff like putting in new bridges that are only wide enough for a single line, or laying the single line in the centre of the old trackbed so it would have to be shifted in the future to double track. All of this is a short-term attempt to reduce costs, but simply passes them down the line in an inflated manner. If the initial projections had been more realistic / optimistic, they may have not felt the need (or that they could get away with) delivering such a parochial project.

    Posted 8 years ago #

  26. chdot
    Admin

    Minister

    'People want sustainable travel - that's the railways'

    Posted 8 years ago #

  27. crowriver
    Member

    The minister seems to have a dull witted knack for stating the blindingly obvious:

    "They are busy trains and people are using them."

    Given that the same minister trumpeted the re-opening of the forth road bridge as a tremendous victory, it would now seem that planning failure equals success, at least as far as the SNP are concerned.

    Posted 8 years ago #

  28. crowriver
    Member

    Rail 'Revolution' announced, i.e. Transport Scotland will be retaining 13 Class 170 TurboStar sets. This will enable new services to run once the Edinburgh-glasgow line is electrified, i.e.. sometime in 2018.

    http://www.transport.gov.scot/news/‘rail-revolution’-means-200-more-services-and-20000-more-seats-scots-passengers

    Main benefits accrue to North East and the Highlands. Snippets applicable to Boders and Edinburgh follow.

    "Edinburgh:
    • New standard ‘all day’ timetable to stations in Fife operated by 3-coach class 170 trains
    • New through service each hour between Borders railway and Fife. Borders railway primarily operated by 3-coach class 170 trains (X% more seats per train)
    • New half hourly service to Glasgow via Cumbernauld, Stepps and Gartcosh
    • Current half hourly service to Stirling and Dunblane becomes limited stop rather than all stations, reducing journey times by around 10 minutes"

    (Note the typo above: "X%"? Tut-tut Transport Scotland! The answer can be found in the Borders snippet, below.

    "Borders:
    • Typically 20% more seats on majority of services to Midlothian and the Borders.
    • Direct hourly connection between Borders Railway and stations in west Edinburgh."

    Posted 8 years ago #

  29. chdot
    Admin

    "Direct hourly connection between Borders Railway and stations in west Edinburgh"

    And if things had been planned better, some could have been via the South Sub - perhaps even from when the Borders line opened.

    Posted 8 years ago #

  30. kaputnik
    Moderator

    I think this is what they call "cascading" in railwayspeak. You buy some nice new trains for 1 service (EGIP), then move everything down a notch allowing you to release the oldest or lower-performance stock for other users.

    This shuffle around of Turbostars away from Edinburgh to Glasgow releases Class 158 units which in turn will displace the Class 156s on the Shotts and West Highland routes. The 156s may be slower and noisier than the 158s, but they have the luxuries of large windows, relatively unobstructed cabins, 6 proper bike spaces in a dedicated compartment and hopper windows which you can open and pop a camera out of (important for Glenfinnan Viaduct shots).

    Posted 8 years ago #

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