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Leith Walk - next stage (still ongoing and going on…)

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  1. chdot
    Admin

    From Rose Street thread -

    "except the Leith Walk traders lose the match because they're scaring away all those potential customers."

    "Leith Walk traders"

    That means 2 1/2 things

    1 - people with shops/other businesses.

    2 - Traders' Association

    2 1/2 the more vocal/bigger traders who may or may not have more influence than other traders and (perhaps) LW residents/shoppers.

    I'm sure all the traders were against the reality of the tramworks and will therefore be suspicious of - perhaps resistant to - current plans, never mind more ambitious ones.

    BUT individually some might be quite keen on a slower, reduced traffic, more bike/ped friendly LW.

    Greener Leith has links with many businesses in Leith. It would interesting to know what they think - and what they they would support.

    Posted 11 years ago #

  2. chdot
    Admin

    "
    We need to be clear that improving our cities for cyclists and pedestrians is as much a political fight

    One that cyclists in particular are currently losing. Optimism is all very well, but it's not enough on its own to overturn odds which are staked against major change.

    "

    True, but I don't think many people here (or out there) are just being optimistic.

    Lots of individuals and organisations - not just 'cyclists' - are working away looking at the current plans, suggesting alternatives, lobbying councillors etc.

    There is no unified view of what it should look like or 'united front'.

    This is probably a good thing - there is no simple 'staring everyone in the face' 'solution', only unattainable because the budget is too small.

    At this stage it's for anyone who is bothered about the general future 'liveability' of Edinburgh and/or LW specifically to look at the issues/opportunities and act as they see fit -

    Despair.

    Write to the papers/their councillors, fill in the online form.

    Get others to do the same (or not)

    Make sure that any 'environmental'/'social justice'/'transport' organisations they have an interest in are taking a view.

    When the revised plans are available (probably February), welcome the new plans - or complain that they are still inadequate.

    Whatever the councillors decide in March, that's not the end. The road still has to be resurfaced and the changes implemented.

    Some things will be an improvement, some won't. I think 'well done' and 'I told you so' may both be appropriate responses.

    Within two years it is likely that CEC will be proposing a 20mph zone (really - that's not just wild optimism). This may not be universally welcome and will need to be supported and may well need things like cycle lanes etc to give it any chance of being 'self enforcing'.

    I still think that what should be happening now is resurfacing and a range of 'experimental' changes and a two year plan to gradually do more in the run up to the 20mph zone - and then more.

    Any of the above will require political will and that needs pressure on the politicians.

    And more money.

    Posted 11 years ago #

  3. cc
    Member

    Re 20mph zone - wow. As opposed to today's 40-50mph zone!

    Mind you that's still pointless unless it's strictly enforced, or the road is redesigned to guide drivers into going a lot slower. cf Causewayside where neither of those things has happened.

    Posted 11 years ago #

  4. crowriver
    Member

    My response was based upon accusations of 'defeatism'. One person's defeatism is another's realpolitik.

    I concur that asking for ideal case scenarios, design rethinks is unrealistic given the fait accompli dressed up as a consultation. That's disappointing, but not surprising given what we've seen with the QBC parking corridor; foot-dragging/insufficient capacity over implementing ATAP; lack of cycle lanes on Princes Street, etc.

    So yes, make the case, write to 'them', etc. Just don't expect much to change in the near future.

    Posted 11 years ago #

  5. Calum
    Member

    There can be no excuse for anything less than fully segregated cycle tracks on both sides of the entire length of Leith Walk. That what will be installed is the same old rubbish is disgusting yet sadly predictable.

    Posted 11 years ago #

  6. chdot
    Admin

    "

    Dutch mums took to the streets, demanding protected cycle tracks to protect children from the growing volumes of cars.

    "

    http://www.cycle-space.com/?p=12233

    Posted 11 years ago #

  7. chdot
    Admin

    "What are streets?"

    Well worth spending 15 minutes watching this, (especially if you work for CEC or are a councillor) -

    [+] Embed the video | Video DownloadGet the Video Plugins

    Posted 11 years ago #

  8. chdot
    Admin

    "
    In Canada and around the world, urban planners are finding out that if you want your city to run, first you have to walk.

    Walkability, often a neglected afterthought in planning, is back, and in cities around the world making life easier for pedestrians is becoming a priority.

    "
    "
    Shifting our cities from car culture to foot traffic requires thinking differently, Mr. Toderian says. "The key to walkability is getting the right density, design and mix."

    The density consideration is the opposite of how you plan for cars, where the object is to separate the vehicles and leave as much room as possible. "Cars don't like other cars, but walkers like more walkers," Mr. Toderian says.

    "

    http://bit.ly/VV8JQK

    Yet more examples of how Edinburgh needs to understand (and implement) successful ideas from elsewhere and make it an even better place to live.

    Posted 11 years ago #

  9. cc
    Member

    I'm reading "Cities for People" by Jan Gehl just now - from the Central Library - and it starts with a lovely quote from Kierkegaard:

    Above all, do not lose your desire to walk. Every day I walk myself into a state of well-being and walk away from every illness. I have walked myself into my best thoughts, and I know of no thought so burdensome that one cannot walk away from it.

    Posted 11 years ago #

  10. Tulyar
    Member

    On the basis that it is easier to beg forgiveness than seek permission, might I suggest that some interventions might be more agit-prop than agreed proposals.

    That said a steady surge of privately promoted traffic orders for alternative uses of the street could demonstrate the concept within the official framework, and perhaps even blur the boundaries, "Now was the road closure/pedestrians day this weekend or last weekend?" "Oops forgot to take down the signs"

    Posted 11 years ago #

  11. Calum
    Member

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-edinburgh-east-fife-20643041

    "The hosting fee for the event is about £2m, of which Edinburgh City Council would be expected to pay about £300,000. It would then cost the local authority about £450,000 for a media centre, barriers and police."

    So that's a £750000 contribution from the Council. Half the extra money required to provide segregated cycle tracks on Leith Walk, which would do more to promote cycling than any sporting event.

    No money? Pull the other one.

    Posted 11 years ago #

  12. chdot
    Admin

    But you don't understand.

    That's a different budget.

    World fame is more important than basic stuff.

    Etc. etc.

    In 2014 they'll be able to try the new cycle lanes on Leith Walk and then the exciting Leith-Seafield-Porty route...

    It's back to the 'cycling is sport/spectacle, not a normal activity' time.

    Posted 11 years ago #

  13. chdot
    Admin

    Anyway Edinburgh couldn't possibly host this - think of the disruption to traffic.

    Posted 11 years ago #

  14. Calum
    Member

    Quite right, how silly of me.

    It's much more important to spread the Good News that Edinburgh is Scotland's Cycling City than to actually make it so.

    Maybe they could brand Leith Walk and the QBC as Cycle Superhighways.

    Posted 11 years ago #

  15. chdot
    Admin

    "

    Edinburgh Council (@Edinburgh_CC)
    09/12/2012 19:55
    We’re funded by Scot Gov (48%), business rates (30%) & Council Tax (22%). Have your say on the #edinbudget priorities http://www.svy.mk/TGvLbS

    "

    Posted 11 years ago #

  16. gkgk
    Member

    If the TdF costs the city £0.75m but generates £45m, as I read is claimed by the council, perhaps their official proposal might pledge half the profit to cycling infrastructure. A nice raised bike lane on P street, please.

    Posted 11 years ago #

  17. chdot
    Admin

    Andrew Burns has ridden the QB(i?)C and found it lacking -

    http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=8473&page=3#post-94711

    I hope he will now take more interest in the plans for LW - not least the plan to use (not particularly visible) chips instead of red surfacing especially on the roundabouts.

    It is highly questionable whether bike lanes there will be 'respected' by other road users - even less likely if they are hard to see.

    Posted 11 years ago #

  18. kaputnik
    Moderator

    Interestingly Cllr. Burns appears to have missed the large sections of QBiC where there's no lane at all and those sections covered in cars (and Christmas trees!) - but calls it "dedicated" nonetheless.

    Posted 11 years ago #

  19. Min
    Member

    He does mention the Christmas trees in the comments. It looks like it has been a very worthwhile exercise to me.

    Posted 11 years ago #

  20. SRD
    Moderator

    and he mentions the missing lane too: "broken lane, when it need not be"

    Remember he was riding south-north, where the missing lane is less obvious.

    I asked him about the 'dedicated' on FB and he says that's why he put the question mark in the title...

    Posted 11 years ago #

  21. Wilmington's Cow
    Member

    "Interestingly Cllr. Burns appears to have missed the large sections of QBiC where there's no lane at all and those sections covered in cars (and Christmas trees!) - but calls it "dedicated" nonetheless."

    I emntioned that to him on Twitter and he did reply that he'd spotted that as well despite riding in theopposite direction. He does genuinely seem to have grasped what's wrong with it.

    Posted 11 years ago #

  22. Roibeard
    Member

    @Leith Walk "Consultation"

    http://dilbert.com/strips/comic/2012-12-19/

    Cynical, moi?

    Robert

    Posted 11 years ago #

  23. neddie
    Member

    The existing pedestrian crossings on LW seem perfectly functional. Why replace all of them (as per the prelim plans)? It does not seem to be a wise use of a limited budget.

    They could use the money saved by not 'upgrading' every single pedestrian crossing to extend the segregated cycleway!

    Posted 11 years ago #

  24. crowriver
    Member

    The existing pedestrian crossings on LW seem perfectly functional. Why replace all of them (as per the prelim plans)?

    Simple. To ease traffic flow. Force peds to cross the road in two movements rather than one. More convenient for motorists.

    I think though there is an additional crossing proposed or did I just imagine that?

    Posted 11 years ago #

  25. crowriver
    Member

    Cynical, moi?

    Not just you...

    Posted 11 years ago #

  26. neddie
    Member

    @crowriver. From the plans, it seems most of the ped xings were already 2 stage. Only 1 ped xing is being converted from 1 stage to 2 stage.

    However, I agree with you that the LW plans seem more about motor traffic flow than 'civilising' the place.

    Posted 11 years ago #

  27. allytibbitt
    Member

    The LW draft plans are rubbish for pedestrians too - in that the only significant gain is at the foot of Constitution Street, where an inexplicably missing crossing there will be added.

    Pretty much all the rest of the signalised junctions that require more than 1 stage to cross could and should be altered to make them 1 stage crossings.

    This would also make them safer for cyclists too - as it would require the council to get rid of daft stuff like left filter lanes in the process - which force cyclists to cut out into the middle of the road.

    Posted 11 years ago #

  28. crowriver
    Member

    Part of my response to the consultation was to point out how unsatisfactory and intimidating two-stage crossings are. They exist mainly for the convenience of motorised traffic, coralling pedestrians behind fenced off traffic islands rather than cause a minor delay for motorised travellers. This sends the message that motor vehicles are at the top of the hierarchy of street use, which is frankly the wrong priority for Leith Walk.

    Posted 11 years ago #

  29. kaputnik
    Moderator

    Do they do special courses in town planner school where they are taught that humans prefer to move not in a direct line of least resistance from A to B, but in a series of indirect right-angled dog-legs?

    I noticed today on Middle Meadow Walk that fences are being put up on the cut-through from George Square to block the desire line path of least resistance that has worn the grass away. It's patenly obvious from the wear pattern the way in which people want to use, yet the response is one of fencing people in to try and stop them doing what's natural!

    Posted 11 years ago #

  30. Arellcat
    Moderator

    Do they do special courses in town planner school

    If they did, they should be aware of its history.

    "(On) the road to Leith. Leith Walk, formerly Leith Loan, is on the line of the entrenchment thrown up against Cromwell, 1650. Leith Walk is called the "Walk to Leith". Originally the gravel path on the top of the parapet or mound, extending from the Calton Hill to Leith in 1650. It became a carriage way after the North Bridge was opened in 1772."

    Posted 11 years ago #

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