I notice also a new 2 stage pedestrian crossing has been installed on Hanover St, near the George St junction. It takes absolutely ages to cross both stages as a pedestrian. Awful!
I hope councillors are flooded with complaints about it.
CityCyclingEdinburgh Forum » Infrastructure
Leith Walk - next stage (still ongoing and going on…)
(466 posts)-
Posted 11 years ago #
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edd1e_h that's been there a while, hasn't it? Has a very narrow island. I think Min timed once how ridiculously long the light cycle was.
Posted 11 years ago # -
I did indeed. Over 2 minutes of waiting. I utterly forgot to complain about it. Thank you for reminding me.
Posted 11 years ago # -
Yeah, the two stagers on George/Hanover have been there for ages, but complexities generated by the road layout have made the sequence particularly drawn out. If it's any comfort to peds, it takes ages to get from Hanover south to Hanover north as a road user as well.
If only they'd pedestrianise George St...
Posted 11 years ago # -
This thread's still about Leith Walk, isn't it?
Posted 11 years ago # -
What happens when a bit of effort is made
So. Glasgow has been building some segregated cycle paths on certain roads. They are quite decent, but unfortunately are on only one side of the road despite being used for both directions of travel - an irritating compromise for the sake of saving money and the convenience of motorists, no doubt, which causes problems at junctions.
Now, look at what pops up in the Evening Times letters page before the one on Waterloo Street is even finished:
"THE new cycle paths built in Waterloo Street have added an extra obstacle to what was already one of the city's worst bottlenecks.
Traffic coming up Hope Street is backing up all the way to the Clyde thanks to the narrowing of the street.
I drive this way every day, and have yet to see a single cyclist using the new lanes."
http://www.eveningtimes.co.uk/features/letters-stage-a-comeback-108290n.19525503
The fact of the matter is that this cycle path has replaced a lane of car parking, NOT a travel lane, so there can't possibly have been an increase in motor vehicle congestion. But the selfishness and blindness of motordom is in full force here: anything that makes life better for people not in a car is bad.
It is difficult for me to articulate my contempt for this attitude. These people are loud and as a result are blocking progress to an unacceptable degree - they're the REAL reason nothing meaningful is being done on Leith Walk.
And yet they can't possibly represent the majority view - especially in Glasgow, where driving truly is a minority activity. It's clear to me that if the wish-and-a-prayer 10% cycle use target is ever to be achieved, these people MUST be ignored. We must drown them out.
Posted 11 years ago # -
No-one should be ignored (it would be all too easy for the ignorees to be us) but irrational viewpoints should instead be calmly refuted with logic.
Posted 11 years ago # -
"irrational viewpoints should instead be calmly refuted with logic"
We've done that...
Posted 11 years ago # -
irrational viewpoints should instead be calmly refuted with logic.
Yeah, because that really worked with things like speed cameras in England; or more locally the bus lane cameras on Willowbrae Road that were removed after catching "too many" residents breaking the law.
It's possible to have too much faith in logic, when poltics often has little to do with it.
Posted 11 years ago # -
The point was that you can't always just ignore the moon-wired as sometimes those whose opinions seem deranged have control of things you want but won't give you because, to them, it's you who's the nutbag and you who will be ignored.
Posted 11 years ago # -
CalumC - what 10% target? Guess who said the following:
"First, to be clear, it is not just the Government’s target, as it is shared with the various stakeholders. It has always been that way. We expect that local authorities and others will also contribute towards the target, of which we all have part ownership.
Thinking about it, I am not sure that it was ever described as a target when it was first set, but you are right to say that it provides a useful ambition for us to have. We are working hard to achieve it, and I think that it will always be the case that progress is slower at the start."
I'm sure you guessed that it was Keith Brown MSP, Minister for Transport and Veterans appearing before the Infrastructure and Capital Investment Committee on 12 December.
Posted 11 years ago # -
This government seems to do quite a bit of that.
Can't achieve something? Opposition giving you hard time about it? Just redefine the goal, and spread the blame. Then it looks as though you are doing better! If that doesn't work, then claim you weren't really planning to reach the goal in the first place. After all, you can't be held to account if you didn't promise anything to start with...
Posted 11 years ago # -
@wingpig "it would be all too easy for the ignorees to be us"
The ignorees are already us. Despite the fact that cycling is the solution to numerous ills, it is consistently at the bottom of the transport pile. Almost every time an opportunity comes up to improve cycling conditions, it's put in the "too hard" box on the grounds of "traffic flow", "unlimited car parking on both sides of the street", "not enough space", "no money", and other such nonsense. Leith Walk and the Quality Bike Corridor are prime examples of this.
As I alluded to, car ownership in Glasgow is low - less than 50% of households have a car. I don't know what the rate is for Edinburgh, but I expect it's also below average given the extent and quality of the buses and the relative walkability of the city. Politicians should be falling over themselves to directly serve the pre-existing needs of a considerable number of car-free households as well as to encourage change in wider society. They are not doing so.
The only solution I can see is to drown out the self-interested whiners. We're the rational ones, because we're not asking for motor vehicles to be banned. The whiners, on he other hand, are irrational, because their selfishness effectively means that the vast majority of people are "banned" from cycling by the state of the roads.
Posted 11 years ago # -
In a couple of months this charade will pan out to the inevitable conclusion.
The local cycling lobby should just redirect their energies behind a petition to rename the street to Leith Drive.
You can't overcome the forces of repression with reason (or positive reinforcement), but you can certainly shame them mercilessly with adverse publicity.
Posted 11 years ago # -
"The ignorees are already us."
Yes, I realised that. That's why I said that thing about being ignored not being nice.
Posted 11 years ago # -
Perhaps the answer is to legislate people onto bikes. You know, the opposite of what the government did with the posties.
Posted 11 years ago # -
Car ownership in Edinburgh of one or more cars is 61%. Not use what it is 61% of. I am quoting inspiring capital statistics.
Edinburgh has been portrayed as exceptionally positive towards cars. Referendum regards congestion Tax in Edinburgh suggests big vote loser for politicians in actually doing something about congestion in our city.
Posted 11 years ago # -
@o_0 - that's not actually a half-bad suggestion. Will satire succeed where everywhere else has failed?
Could even put up some new street signs...
Posted 11 years ago # -
o_O - I wonder if we could get 500 signatures for a petition to re-name Leith Walk to the Council. They have to consider it under their own rules.
http://www.edinburgh.gov.uk/info/20232/petitions/1829/petitions
Let's face it - it's actually more likely to succeed than any campaign to get segregated cycle lanes.
Posted 11 years ago # -
I like the sound of that. Don't think there are 500 people on here - not posting anyway but the social media types could drum up some support on teh internets.
Posted 11 years ago # -
Yep, it's a good plan. Reminds me of the mildly subversive tactics employed by Czech dissidents under Communism.
Posted 11 years ago # -
... petition and publicity best organised via PoP, then
Posted 11 years ago # -
I guess we should wait for the results of the consultation, but the petition's a great idea
Posted 11 years ago # -
@bdellar
That seems immensely sensible.
If the 'final' version isn't much different from current proposals it shouldn't be hard to collect the required number of signatures before the councillors make a decision.
Something along the lines of -
'In view of the current proposals to maintain priority for motor vehicles we, the undersigned, request that Leith Walk is renamed Leith Drive - as a matter of urgency.'
Posted 11 years ago # -
Is the currently-proposed proposal likely to be their absolute best attempt or is it likely that there's a little bit held back in order to be able to pretend to be taking concerns on board whilst not going without the boundaries of pre-decided wriggle/hagglespace?
Posted 11 years ago # -
"Is the currently-proposed proposal likely to be their absolute best attempt"
I'm sure that's what the planners/designers thought - with the opportunity to listen and alter (slightly).
The problem is that there isn't enough "budget" to do anything significantly different - or (it seems) the general understanding of how 'it could be so much better'.
BUT such limitations could be overcome if there was political will/courage/leadership.
There are very few signs of any of that.
Even if this is a lost cause, it's still worth making a fuss.
In a few years time the tram will happen (or probably not) and there will be further opportunities. Until then there will (probably) be a nice smooth surface to cycle on and (almost certainly) higher vehicle speeds.
Posted 11 years ago # -
Yup, we've missed the chance for Princes Street, the QBC is not very Q, and it looks like we're going to get next to nothing on Leith Walk. We should do something.
Posted 11 years ago # -
"
“Biking is definitely part of our strategy to attract and retain businesses in order to compete in a mobile world,” says Minneapolis Mayor R.T. Rybak, as we glide across the Mississippi River on one of two bike-and-pedestrian bridges that connect downtown to the University of Minnesota. “We want young talent to come here and stay. And good biking is one of the least expensive ways to send that message.”"
http://www.yesmagazine.org/happiness/how-bicycling-is-transforming-business
Posted 11 years ago # -
When America's sustainable transport policy starts to make your country's look bad, you know you have a serious problem.
Posted 11 years ago # -
Hi Folks,
A bit more crowd sourcing:
Comments welcome - particularly links to research evidence to give it some more oomph.
Posted 11 years ago #
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