Can you all just visit as many Leith Walk shops as possible, wearing your hi vis jackets, ideally adorned with blinky lights, clippy shoes etc? And spend lots of money, obviously
CityCyclingEdinburgh Forum » Infrastructure
Leith Walk - next stage (still ongoing and going on…)
(466 posts)-
Posted 12 years ago #
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It's a great cartoon.
Leith Walk businesses probably need to realise that far more of their customers already arrive on foot/bike/bus than require parking spaces.
The tram was a bit of a con (in terms of 'potentially bringing more customers') in that it would have stopped in far fewer places than the buses!
Posted 12 years ago # -
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Rod King (@20splentyforus)
09/11/2012 22:08
See how some of the best community engagement is being done on 20mph limits#20splenty #cityof20 @the20effect
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Posted 12 years ago # -
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People in cities all over the world cycle for a different reason; because of the exercise, because it looks cool, or just because cycling is the quickest way to navigate through their cities. Australian architecture professor Steven Fleming studied cycle culture in different cities and presented his results in the book ‘Cycle Space’. In this book Fleming explores ways to make better cities by connecting cycling, architecture, design and urban planning.
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Posted 12 years ago # -
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“We’re not Italians, we’re Danes; we need our cars” that was how the discussion went,http://www.cphpost.dk/news/national/‘copenhagenizing’-world-one-city-time
(1962)
Posted 12 years ago # -
Whereas in Edinburgh:
Should the Capital look to the Netherlands to get people on their bikes?
Yes, we should learn from the best
14 (47%)
No, it’s a totally different environment in Scotland
15 (50%)
Let’s get the tram done first and then move forward
1 (3%)Posted 12 years ago # -
From comments made yesterday (at the Love Cycling, Go Dutch conference) and information I have received today there are going to be no new cycling lanes on Leith Walk north of the roundabout at Elm Row. So CEC is once again going to totally ignore the advice of top international experted and waste large amounts of public money for no good reason.
It was also being reported that the cycling target for 2020 is now "15% of commuter journeys" and not as the Charter of Brussels target of "at least 15% for the share of cycling in the modal split of trips".
Now is the time to write to your Cllrs and tell them what we will not accept this stitch up!
Posted 12 years ago # -
Reading the Copenhagen Post comments... looks like we're on the map judging by this comment in response to a suggestion that pedestrianisation had made Copenhagen 'dead'.
"The entire pedestrianised area from Rådhuspladsen and Hovedbanegarden to KN and Nørreport is always busy - if that is your 'hot spot" then it's a pretty big one, and one populated with a range of people, not just the aggressive drunks that abound in Scottish cities."
Don't know what he means! ;-)
Posted 12 years ago # -
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It was also being reported that the cycling target for 2020 is now "15% of commuter journeys" and not as the Charter of Brussels target of "at least 15% for the share of cycling in the modal split of trips".
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Yes, they weasled that a while ago.
I'm not sure how much it's worth the bother complaining about it specifically. The revised target is going to be hard enough the way the council is currently operating.
The fact that the business of cycle lanes on Leith Walk (none) appears to have been decided before the public consultation is really more serious.
The phrase "Rolls Royce" was used yesterday at the CS conference by people from the Netherlands in connection with 'high quality cycle lanes'.
I'm sure no-one in Edinburgh expects "high quality cycle facilities" any time soon, but the idea that LW 'must' cater for buses, speeding and double-parked vehicles - exactly like now (more or less) - does have to be challenged!
Posted 12 years ago # -
The major problem that Edinburgh has is the lack of clear leadership. Currently it is a total shamble, since the election things have been getting steadily worst, we need a Transport Convener who understands that Transport is about moving people and making the City a better place for People. It is not about make the city car friendly, a car friendly city is a hostile place for people...
Posted 12 years ago # -
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8-80 Cities (@Penalosa_G)
15/11/2012 02:57
Wouldn’t you want to be on a bicycle if the cars are this slow and protected bikeways this nice? @Quito, Ecuador twitpic.com/bdajfr"
Posted 12 years ago # -
and it looks so simple. what gets me annopyed about the council saying 'oh we can't do that' eg QBC or leith walk, is that it's not that they can't, its that they don't want to.
Posted 12 years ago # -
Exactly. They either don't want to do it (in which case, why sign up to the targets?) or they simply don't have the balls to do it.
It's pretty clear that they're running scared of the likes of the Evening News...
Posted 12 years ago # -
That's a coincidence, I was reading about Quito just yesterday. It's almost 10,000 feet above sea level, has the best preserved old town in the Americas which was made the equal very first ever UNESCO world heritage site, its climate is permanently sunny and spring-like - and now I find it has civilised-looking bike lanes too. I may learn Spanish and emigrate.
Re the lovely picture - unless we had a sea change in police and council enforcement attitudes that bike lane would be covered in parked blinky vans/cars if it was in Edinburgh. It would need to be protected with adamantium bollards spaced a few inches apart all the way along its length to make it physically impossible to block. The QBC bike lanes in Causewayside, Buccleuch Street and Ratcliffe Terrace are generally blocked even in rush hours, they're just the usual Edinburgh red parking strip.
Posted 12 years ago # -
@cc I don't know - I suspect a kerb between the road and the cyclepath would be enough of a demarcation to persuade all but the very biggest fools not to park on it.
The psychology of territory is pretty strong in most people.
Posted 12 years ago # -
Did whoever-it-was ever do their test with the little plastic cups of water?
Agree with the statement about the lack of courage of the politicians...Posted 12 years ago # -
I don't agree - people park on the pavement where they please, so it seems a bit much to expect them to leave cycleways clear.
An imaginative council could, for instance, start using front-facing camera footage from Lothian Buses to issue fines to motorists blocking the cycleway, but what are the chances of that ever happening?
Posted 12 years ago # -
They work in other countries. No matter how much we kid ourselves about national characteristics human nature is pretty universal. Largely to do with herd mentality. Edinburghers would get used to them pretty quickly.
At the moment, parking on the kerb is viewed as acceptable behaviour as people do it everywhere - cf pretty much any housing estate.
Parking in the non-segregated cycle lane isn't seen as crossing any behavioural line by many people - after all, it's part of the road, there's only a dashed line and a single yellow (meaningless markings to many) and, at the end of the day, cyclists can simply move out to the right (admittedly into the traffic but doable) to go round the parked car. It's a grey area so people don't feel any blame will attach to them.
Having to drive over a kerb onto another carriageway is a different matter as it's new territory and someone else's (especially the case if the cyclepath is well used). If needs be, make the kerb a good 6 inches high to delineate clearly and add a risk of tyre/wheel damage.
Of course, if the Cooncil had the balls to segregate it would have made such a political investment that it would have to enforce it as well.
Posted 12 years ago # -
what gets me annopyed about the council saying 'oh we can't do that' eg QBC or leith walk, is that it's not that they can't, its that they don't want to.
That's been pretty obvious ever since they issued the tender for works for Leith Walk, regsardless of any 'consultation' exercise.
As I think I've said before, we need to ask why don't they want to do it.
From Hinds' and Orr's statements so far it seems like a case of "cyclists may want this, but we (and everyone else) do not!" Is it simply because they feel there's no public support for such a measure? Or is it just because it's not in ATAP, therefore there's no budget, therefore they're not doing it, you'll have had your QBC, etc.
Posted 12 years ago # -
Considering how much they like to go on about encouraging cycling, 20% by 2020 and all that and considering how often they pay Dutch etc designers and so on to come here and tell them what to do, the fact that they then completely and utterly ignore it all is totally baffling.
Like this though:-
you'll have had your QBC
All fur coat and nae knickers and all that.
Posted 12 years ago # -
"Did whoever-it-was ever do their test with the little plastic cups of water?"
Not yet. All set up for it, but work hasn't been playing ball of late (not that that's stopping me getting a coffee tomorrow morning, but there you go).
Posted 12 years ago # -
It is increasingly clear that the reason that Edinburgh is not getting good cycle infrastructure is not due to lack of political will. It is more that it is being blocked by a small number councillors and council officers. I just haven't found out exactly who.
There are also real questions to be asked about the ATAP and not just why wasn't properly proof read before it was published. Questions like is it fit for purpose?
Posted 12 years ago # -
@Kim, Leslie Hinds must surely be on your list of 'blockers'?
Posted 12 years ago # -
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All evidence that it is time that the traffic engineers got on a bike and started thinking about what they can do to reduce the carnage on the roads."
From SRD's link.
The simple 'rubbish/plastic cup bike lanes' are impressive!
Posted 12 years ago # -
Yes it's true, you'll have had your cycle lanes:
http://www.greenerleith.org/greener-leith-news/2012/11/16/safe-leith-walk-cycle-lanes-to-be-axed-despite-local-backing.html
Posted 12 years ago # -
Everyone with any interest in Leith Walk - residents, traders, politicians, officials should watch this -
Posted 12 years ago # -
From GL link -
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Documents leaked to Greener Leith suggest that local councillors are planning to back pedal on providing protected cycle lanes on Leith Walk despite clear local support for measures to improve the safety of cyclists using the street.The papers suggest councillors have apparently agreed to abandon first draft designs produced for the street seen by Greener Leith in September - in favour of proposals that would be cheaper but more dangerous for cyclists. (Officers refused to provide us with electronic copies of the September design at the time so we can't include the plans in detail here).
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The only thing that is clear is that things are completely unclear.
I got this from a CEC official yesterday -
"we are going to try and make clearer the distinction between the utilities work (Jan - early summer next year) and the road resurfacing, footway and environmental improvements"
That refers to the fact that the next 'action' on Leith Walk will be digging up various bits to fix the bits that weren't done properly last time - which were only done because of the tram which isn't going down LW anymore/any time soon.
I think it's still the case that the contractors who botched the job can't be made to pay for 'repairs'. So that's CEC money - well actually it's the money that people who pay Council Tax in Edinburgh pay - and anyone who pays any tax which ends up with the SG who then pass it on (out of supreme generosity of course) - on the understanding that CEC will use it wisely...
So the 'future' is some way off - BUT already there is far too much 'it won't happen'/'can't afford to do it'. AND the 'consultation' is still going on.
It doesn't help that councillors are being told that putting traffic lights instead of the London Road roundabout would cost £2.5m. It's a T junction why can't it be designed without lights OR a roundabout??
'Oh it's the volume of traffic'
'I thought you were trying to reduce the volume of traffic'
'Well yes'
It doesn't help that a senior local politician seems more worried about the LW traders who (apparently) rely on customers who (only?) come by car.
Plenty of money has been spent on Castle Street, St Andrew Square, Grassmarket etc. - perhaps it's LW's turn?
Perhaps it's the turn of the people who live in Leith who don't have cars.
Perhaps it's the turn of the people who would like to cycle on LW but are too scared.
Perhaps it's the turn of the children who have to cross Leith Walk to get to school (they'll be voters one day).
Perhaps it's time politicians showed some leadership and inspired people to think that things could be (a bit) more like some (other) European cities (some American ones are catching up fast - and easily overtaking Edinburgh/Leith).
Posted 12 years ago # -
Well said chdot.
I urge anyone who lives in the Leith Walk area (as I do) to attend the drop-in session at MacDonald Road library on 3 December. It's one way to be heard, to put the case for segregated cycle paths.
Maybe we need a Critical Mass style ride down Leith Walk too...
Posted 12 years ago #
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