It was the flash rides in Blackfriars that kicked off the Big Ride, TfL's junction review and (indirectly) PoP
CityCyclingEdinburgh Forum » Infrastructure
Leith Walk - next stage (still ongoing and going on…)
(466 posts)-
Posted 12 years ago #
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Think this was one of the first ones -
Posted 12 years ago # -
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Dear Stakeholders,THE LEITH PROGRAMME - email update 3. 21 November 2012.
On 31 July 2012, the Council’s Finance and Resource Committee agreed a budget of £5.5 million to upgrade roads and pavements and carry out a range of environmental improvements along Constitution Street, Leith Walk and Picardy Place.
Preliminary design ready for consultation
Based on stakeholder feedback from a range of previous consultations (carried out by the Council and by community organisations), a preliminary design for these streets has now been developed for consultation.
The preliminary design and a survey on the proposals will be available online from Saturday 24 November 2012, at http://www.edinburgh.gov.uk/leithimprovements . Hard copies will also be available for viewing at McDonald Road and Leith Libraries.
Key elements of the preliminary design
An integral element of the works will be to resurface roads and tidy up and even out pavements. There are also a number of additional elements that are proposed which will be central to the consultation survey. These include:
Improvements for pedestrians - proposals to make junctions at Kirkgate, Annandale and Baltic Street easier and safer to cross, proposals for a number of new islands in the centre of Leith Walk, and resurfacing the raised road areas at the side streets.
Improvements for cyclists - proposals for a combination of cycle lanes and segregated cycle ways at Picardy Place and London Road roundabouts, reducing the number of traffic lanes on the roundabout approaches and addition of advanced stop lines at signalled junctions.
Improving the appearance of the streets by replacing Leith Walk pavements with new grey slabs, relocating large domestic waste bins into road lay-bys and removing unnecessary signage; we will also seek people's views on additional planting.
Consultation - your chance to have your saySurvey: We would like as many people as possible to take part in the survey which will be available online from Saturday 24 November 2012 to Sunday 13 January 2013, from http://www.edinburgh.gov.uk/leithimprovements ; or in hard copy at McDonald Road and Leith Libraries or by phoning 0131 529 7061.
Drop in Event: Officers will be in attendance at a drop in event to discuss the preliminary designs and gather people’s views at McDonald Road Library on Monday 3 December, from 10am to 8pm.Your feedback will help us develop a final design that will balance the range of needs of those who use these streets. The final design will be reported to the Transport and Environment Committee on 19 March 2013.
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Posted 12 years ago # -
Well it's all down to the detail of course but -
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Improving the appearance of the streets by replacing Leith Walk pavements with new grey slabs"
can't mean the whole of the length of LW so except where it's for improved pedestrian safety, seems like a waste of (scarce) money.Posted 12 years ago # -
Improvements for cyclists - proposals for a combination of cycle lanes and segregated cycle ways at Picardy Place and London Road roundabouts, reducing the number of traffic lanes on the roundabout approaches and addition of advanced stop lines at signalled junctions.
Why can't they just reduce the number of traffic lanes along the whole length of Leith Walk? Then there would be space for at least one proper cycle way...
Oh, of course, the bins need to be collected. And folk need to double park too, presumably in front of/right next to the bins?
Improving the appearance of the streets by replacing Leith Walk pavements with new grey slabs, relocating large domestic waste bins into road lay-bys and removing unnecessary signage; we will also seek people's views on additional planting.
Posted 12 years ago # -
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Why can't they just reduce the number of traffic lanes along the whole length of Leith Walk? Then there would be space for at least one proper cycle way"
Indeed
http://www.nyc.gov/html/dot/downloads/pdf/2012-10-measuring-the-street.pdf
Posted 12 years ago # -
A flyer like the one above should go out to every shop & business on LW
Posted 12 years ago # -
It would certainly be interesting to know how many businesses already would like to see better conditions for pedestrians and bike users.
I suspect more could be persuaded if shown that things have improved trade in other cities.
Unfortunately any existing/surviving businesses on LW are unlikely to believe anything the Council tells them after the experience of recent years.
It would be nice to think that CEC could come up with some bold proposals that got the support of local people and organisations and ones such as Spokes, Sustrans and Living Streets - and CCE members of course!
Posted 12 years ago # -
@Kim - "It is more that it is being blocked by a small number councillors and council officers. I just haven't found out exactly who"
Been thinking same thing. Might it make sense to sit down and look at the committee membership councillor by councillor to work out where pressure needs to be applied?
Posted 12 years ago # -
"Why can't they just reduce the number of traffic lanes along the whole length of Leith Walk? Then there would be space for at least one proper cycle way"
Well because of the way in which they have build outs at the pedestrian crossing to accommodate the parking lanes. Apparently it would cost to much to move the crossing lights to allow the cycle lane on the inside of the parking lane (as they have done in NYC, see above). Of course putting the parking lanes money wasn't a problem. Nor is spending £55K a week to allow "Free parking" for the "Alive after 5" stupidity. Not that there is any hard evidence to show that "Alive after 5" actually produces any economic gain, certainly not the 49% increase in retail sales the NYC bike lanes produced!
I truly despair at the incompetence of the City of Edinburgh Council!
Posted 12 years ago # -
@edd1e_h - I've been thinking the exact same thing. "Want 49% increase in sales? Ask for segregated cycle lanes" and on the back "New York put in segregated cycle lanes and found up to 49% increase retail sales and 49% fewer vacant shops".
Just need to work out the logistics - how many shops, cost to print, is graphic design needed, estimate of time to post through the shop letterboxes - all versus my enthusiasm...
Robert
Posted 12 years ago # -
"Just need to work out the logistics - how many shops, cost to print, is graphic design needed"
Maybe Greener Leith and Spokes could help.
Posted 12 years ago # -
I wrote to my Councillors (City Centre Ward) at the weekend to say I was very disappointed to hear reports that segregated cycle lanes were not being considered for the length of Leith Walk, as I believe that they would improve the attractiveness of the street for locals and visitors alike, help local businesses, promote active travel on a crucial and direct link between Leith and the city centre and benefit other road users (an end to buses having to crawl behind cyclists in the greenways).
I received a next working day response from each. The gist of them is summarised below:
Karen Doran (Lab, member of Transport and Environment Committee):
Agrees that a segregated cycle lane would be great for Leith Walk and has raised this a number of times with colleagues. Provided a link to CEC website page on updates and the Dec 3rd event at McDonald Road Library.
Joanna Mowat (Con, member of Transport and Environment Committee):
Plans for LW are about to go out for consultation, contain some segregated cycle lane but will be consulted on and are subject to change. She has cc’d my email to Anna Herriman, the CEC office who is coordinating the consultation. “Having lived on the Continent and enjoyed segregated cycle paths I understand how they improve the experience for cyclists and encourage less confident cyclists to cycle on busier streets”.
Alasdair Rankin (SNP):
Email from Mr Rankin’s assistant to say they have passed my inquiry to SNP Cllr Jim Orr and will be in touch as soon as he provides comments.
Posted 12 years ago # -
When I wrote to Cllr Angela Blacklock (Lab, Leith Walk) back in August (in support of Cllr Booth's 'Chris Hoy' motion) she claimed to be in favour of a segregated cycle lane adjacent to the pavement. I already know my Green councillor Maggie Chapman is in favour of segregated cycle lanes.
Who's doing the blocking then? Cllr Hinds herself? Cllr Orr?
Posted 12 years ago # -
Thanks for the template PS.. I've adapted and used some of your message to send onto my local councillors, one of whom is on the Transport committee (Mark McInnes). Also highlighted that this is the opportunity to start the journey to becoming world-class by making the right decisions on Leith Walk.
Posted 12 years ago # -
Survey is now online - including some road plans.
http://www.edinburgh.gov.uk/info/20056/city_centre_and_leith_neighbourhood/1788/leith_improvement_programme_2012-2014/3Posted 12 years ago # -
http://www.edinburgh.gov.uk/downloads/download/2429/the_leith_programme_survey has the plans.
Exec summary: the roundabouts will have cycle lanes on them, rather than segregation.
In my opinion it's unlikely that anyone willing to dice with aggressive traffic on two unsignalled multi-lane roundabouts is being deterred by the lack of segregation on the straight bit in between.
Segregation can't be used by cyclists who want to access the New Town, only the ones going up Leith St (which isn't affected by these works, and is probably the most intimidating bit).
Actually it's significantly more than I thought it would be, but I'm far from convinced. How will they keep the lane free of parked vehicles (I suppose that will be an 'implementation detail' right up until the point that it 'should have been addressed at the design stage').
The tiny reallocation of space has been completely away from pedestrians, not single occupancy motor vehs.
Sigh.
Posted 12 years ago # -
So Leith Walk is too narrow for segregated cycle lanes, but does seem able to accommodate a very wide median strip that runs most of the length of the street? This is ridiculous - a dead zone in the middle of four lanes of traffic. Also intriguing that the plans actually say "Existing footway narrowed to accommodate new segregated cycle lane" - why highlight that unless you want to get lots of people to object to the cycle lanes.
Posted 12 years ago # -
In spite of suggestions that 'it's already been decided', it won't be finally passed by the Council until March 19th with comments open until January 13th.
I have seen some recent versions of the plans and there are definitely some improvements that need to be made (some may have been done to the plans that are due to go online tomorrow).
This is the official version of what's happening -
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FundingA report to Finance and Resource Committee recommending funding for road and environmental improvements (separate and additional to the funding for completing utilities works) was agreed on 31 July 2012, with the following amendment:
"The Director of Services for Communities to ensure that the design team assesses a full range of options to give increased priority for cyclists, including dedicated and mixed use lanes, to complement the proposals of the Active Travel Action Plan."
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The officials have to draw up plans to improve conditions for pedestrians and cyclists. They have a budget to work within and they also have to consider what the Councillors will actually approve.
My understanding is that political representations are being made to the Scottish Government to get some (more) money to be used specifically to improve cycling infrastructure. It is possible that money will be asked for to help with 'environment'/'public realm' improvements.
'We' are obviously interested in improving things for 'cycling' - both for 'us' and all those people who might cycle in places like Leith Walk. But, I hope. we are all interested in improving Leith Walk for 'promenading' (well why not!) and shopping too.
There is money to resurface all the way from Picardy Place 'to the Docks'. That alone will improve things for cycling, BUT it could also lead to higher speeds for vehicles.
I think it's important that the whole length is 20mph - which won't be easy. CEC has talked about having 20mph limits in "shopping streets". Though this is unlikely to happen until the south central "pilot" is evaluated.
As happened there, one objector to 20mph limits was Lothian Buses. On this forum Dave posted his experience of taking a bus on one of the (at the time) proposed routes and found that the bus hardly exceeded 20.
It would be nice if Lothian Buses would advocate 20mph limits. Pedestrian safety (or even just the perception of it) - especially when crossing roads - should lead to more people wanting to be bus passengers.
It remains to be seen if there will be the money or will to have segregated lanes on any parts of the route (whether it's a good/bad idea is another matter!)
Obviously the surface of Leith Walk has been terrible for years - made much worse by 'preparations for the tram' - and this aftermath (still requiring MORE holes) is the main reason this is all happening.
BUT because it is still Council policy that 'the trams will go to Leith one day' - very unlikely to be within the next ten years - there is a problem about doing any work that 'might have to undone' - particularly for fear of accusations of 'wasted money'.
It's complicated!
But the more that people feed into the consultation process the better
My main disappointment is that it still seems to be the intention to retain the the Picardy Place and London Road roundabouts largely as they are - with a bit of new red surfacing.
'Well there's a lot of traffic'.
Perhaps it would be better if there was less - and it was planned that there was less...
Posted 12 years ago # -
The tiny reallocation of space has been completely away from pedestrians, not single occupancy motor vehs.
But it'll keep the EEN happy, so that's ok.
I thought cities were about citizens: people who meet other people, to spend money and enjoy their environment. But actually, Edinburgh is all about parking revenue.
Posted 12 years ago # -
I don't think the parking/loading bays on Leith Walk are pay bays, it's free parking.
There are a few minor improvements for pedestrians in the plans. For cyclists, the improvements are very marginal and restricted to two very short segregated lanes in the vicinty of Picardy Place. Otherwise it's pretty much "as you were".
It's yet another half-hearted compromise, which will see the double-parking free-for-all triumph over all other road users, and the aggressive drivers doninate the roundabouts as they do now. A few bits of red chipping on the roundabouts ain't gonna make the slightest bit of difference to drivers' behaviour. A bolder use of segregated lanes (going up Leith Street, coming down from York Place) might have made more of a difference.
Posted 12 years ago # -
"might have made more of a difference"
It's not over yet...
I think it's very important to press for much better measures that are likely to improve things for people on bikes (and those who wish they were).
But 'cyclists' are only part of the picture. Pedestrians, residents, shoppers, business owners, bus passengers and law-abiding-drivers (these are not mutually exclusive, or comprehensive, categories) want a wide range of improvements - for which there is not, currently, enough money. But if the Council/Scottish Government is at all serious about Active Travel and urban improvement generally this really is a unique opportunity.
In the big scheme of things (not just 'transport') the current £5m budget is peanuts.
Posted 12 years ago # -
I've filled out the survey, and hope to attend the consultation day too. I'm not hopeful that the council will change its plans substantially, however the section at the end where they ask about 'missed opportunities' is a wee chink of light...
Posted 11 years ago # -
'Painted on' red cycle lanes round the outside of the roundabouts will increase the risk of a driver ploughing into a cyclist, and will not make cycling there any safer at all.
No experienced cyclist would cycle round the outside of a roundabout.
Say hello to inexperienced cyclist carnage. £1m compensation payouts to cyclists injured by new cycle 'facilities'...?
Posted 11 years ago # -
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'Painted on' red cycle lanes"
If only -
they are planning chips...
Posted 11 years ago # -
Basically both these roundabouts need to be removed, or at the very least signalised. Then they would be safer. The short stretches of segregated cycle paths between Picardy Place and London Road are welcome, but that's it apart from extra on-road markings on the approaches to, and within the roundabouts, which as others have pointed out look potentially dangerous for less confident cyclists. The additional traffic islands and narrowing of the roundabouts might make a difference, but I suspect motorists will just get even more 'frustrated' and start barging cyclists out of the way of 'their' road space...
Posted 11 years ago # -
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Basically both these roundabouts need to be removed, or at the very least signalised."
Yes to the first bit.
Not sure about second.
CEC is working on back of a fag packet '£2.5m estimate' for signals.
Currently total budget is £5.5m.
Don't forget London Road roundabout/Leith Walk looked like this fairly recently -
Caused a few problems but the world didn't come to end.
Motor traffic went elsewhere - or didn't bother...
Posted 11 years ago # -
I'll be writing again to councillors, filling out the online thing, going to the meeting at the library... but I think, as people have said above, no matter how many paper responses they get, they'll ignore them.
I'm afraid with my PhD write-up I've not had much time to think about this sort of thing, but I'd be happy to donate a couple of hours putting up posters for a protest, posting fliers to local businesses and residents, storming the council building, etc... and I'm happy to chip in with a bit of money to pay for printing or whatever.
Are people generally optimistic there's a chance we could get a segregated bike lane, and a reduction in the number of car lanes onto those roundabouts? Or is Hinds etc going to be blocking this to the death?
[edit: jk about storming the council btw]
Posted 11 years ago # -
The Council are not just short of money they lack imagination, the roundabout could work like this http://goo.gl/maps/lCnTo if the lowered the speed limit. I have been to this roundabout and it works!
If we want thing to change then we have to apply political pressure please all fill out the Leith Programme Survey it is open to everyone and should take about 10 minutes to complete. Then write to your councillors, tell them you would like to be able to visit Leith Walk to shop by bike (or visit, or what ever), but you don't go there at present because it is too dangerous to do so.
Posted 11 years ago # -
Difficult to see from that GoogleView just what's different about that roundabout Kim - any more details?
EDIT: I've streetviewed it and I'm still none the wiser...
Will happily campaign for a better Leith Walk (though I can't honestly say I won't go there at the moment because it's too dangerous, because I do go there, I just think it could be safer for the less experienced etc., and just generally a nicer street if better laid out)
Posted 11 years ago #
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