CityCyclingEdinburgh Forum » General Edinburgh

The "How close can I get to the cyclist" game

(16 posts)
  • Started 12 years ago by ZenGwen
  • Latest reply from LaidBack

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  1. ZenGwen
    Member

    Am I the only one who's experienced this? Happens to me often enough that I've noticed a trend...

    I'm on a fairly quiet road, merrily cycling along with right of way, and a pedestrian is waiting to cross at the curb. They are planning to jaywalk (hey, I do it too, whatever) and are obviously frustrated that they can't cross yet, not because of a car, but because of a silly cyclist! So, they proceed to edge forward off the pavement, estimating how far away I am, getting as much of a lead as they can, like a runner trying to steal second base... (sorry, I'm American.)

    What really kills me is, about half the times this happens, I'll move further away from the curb so I don't pass very close by them, and they'll move forward to take up that space, then glare at me when I zip by only a few inches away from them!

    It's very frustrating, gets me in a completely irrational snit all day every time it happens.

    Anyone else run into this?...

    Posted 12 years ago #

  2. SRD
    Moderator

    i find they tend to just step out while looking the other way, staring at their phone, etc

    Posted 12 years ago #

  3. kaputnik
    Moderator

    Yes, except you don't have right of way I don't think? Someone else explained the differences between priorities, right of way etc. on a different thread.

    Posted 12 years ago #

  4. ZenGwen
    Member

    Surely if I have a green light and they have a "Don't walk" sign, I have right of way?

    Posted 12 years ago #

  5. holisticglint
    Member

    Don't think there is such a thing as Jaywalking in the UK but I have experienced this too. that said I do the same with cars when trying to get across a busy street. You move out when you see a gap in traffic coming so you have the minimum distance to actually cross between cars. To the driver this looks like you are walking directly at them!

    Posted 12 years ago #

  6. fimm
    Member

    There's no such thing, legally, as jaywalking, in the UK. A pedestrian may legally cross a road whenever and whereever they choose to do so, except if a special order has been put in place to say otherwise. An example of such a road would be a motorway. This does not mean that it is safe to wander out onto a road without attention. Vehicles, even those with thoughtful and careful drivers, take a finite time to stop.

    I wonder if the pedestrians who are annoying you are in fact expecting you to pass behind them?

    Posted 12 years ago #

  7. holisticglint
    Member

    Wow the HYC rules for peds are complex - can you tell the difference between Pelican, Puffin and Toucan crossings ?

    http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/TravelAndTransport/Highwaycode/DG_070108

    Fortunately very few actual laws - but how can you not loiter around a crossing ?

    Also the rules for crossing a Zebra crossing (whats with all the animals anyway?) make it impossible to deploy them on busy roads. Explains a lot.

    Posted 12 years ago #

  8. kaputnik
    Moderator

    I have right of way

    I know it sounds like I'm being pedantic, but if/when they (pedestrians) are on the road, crossing, I believe the obligation lies with you the cyclist (or drivers) to take the avoiding action. I'm not saying it's not annoying, jut "how it is".

    Likewise you can cycle across a "toucan" type crossing on red unless it is one that specifically has a red traffic light, rather than a red bicycle, as the stop light.

    I enjoy the freedom of walking across the road (when it is safe to do so), rather than finding a crossing. I stronly dislike "safety" fencing as it corralls you into crossing where someone staring at a CAD drawing of the junction thinks you either want to, or thinks you ought to, cross. If I don't happen to be intending to follow the convoluted series of right-angles and dog-legs that the designer intended I should, I can't just follow the line of desire, even if it is perfectly safe to cross.

    whats with all the animals anyway

    I think the trend for naming crossings after animals started with the man Belisha who was mentioned on another thread, and has continued ever since.

    Posted 12 years ago #

  9. Roibeard
    Member

    @ZenGwen Surely if I have a green light and they have a "Don't walk" sign, I have right of way?

    As others have pointed out, no, not here. "Right of way" doesn't exist, although "priority" does when it comes to vehicles (hence one yields/gives way to those with priority).

    Pedestrians have the biggest claim to the road in law, but cede it most easily as folk recognise that the laws of physics take precedence over the laws of the land!

    However, getting back to the point, yes, I do find that pedestrians start crossing before I've reached them, so almost walk into me, even if they intend to pass behind me. Perhaps they're so acclimatised to speed that they expect approaching vehicles to be doing 30mph, and overestimate a cyclist's speed?

    Robert

    Posted 12 years ago #

  10. Wilmington's Cow
    Member

    Right of Way
    The right to move along a certain route by your chosen means. A pedestrian has a right of way pretty much anywhere there's a pavement or road (though not places like motorways and the city bypass, there they have been specifically excluded). Cyclists have a right of way on the roads (save the same exemptions above), but not on pavements, unless designated shared use/segregated. Right of way can also be directional (one way streets).

    Priority
    Who must 'give way' (or cede priority) - usually giverened by the road markings. So travelling along a road you have priority over someone emerging from a side street. You both have 'right of way' over that piece of road, but one has to wait for the other to pass before he can exercise that priority.

    It's become my own personal grocer's apostrophe the difference between priority and right of way.

    I would argue that on a street, with a road, and a pavement, that cars, bikes etc. on the road have priority over pedestrians - but (and this is actually the stated case with some crossings - zebra?) as soon as the pedestrian steps into the road that priority flips. It's an odd concept - actually applies to the crossings on George Street (though Morningsider will be along soon to tell me I'm wrong :P ) A pedestrian is supposed to wait until there's no traffic to step out; cars are supposed to stop as soon as a pedestrian steps out (there's no obligation to stop if people are standing to the side).

    Right, away back in my box, this day isn't finished by a long chalk...

    Posted 12 years ago #

  11. ZenGwen
    Member

    Huh. Good to know! And here I felt such affinity for all the "jaywalking" Scots, moving over from New York. Turns out they're not even jaywalking. Oh well. :P

    I'll keep that in mind in future. Still...

    I know it sounds like I'm being pedantic, but if/when they (pedestrians) are on the road, crossing, I believe the obligation lies with you the cyclist (or drivers) to take the avoiding action. I'm not saying it's not annoying, jut "how it is".

    This is the thing, though... if someone is already crossing, because they haven't noticed me or they know I'm far enough away or I've just turned onto the road or whatever, I will generally slow down to let them pass. That's not what I'm talking about. I'm talking about pedestrians getting to the corner, looking both ways, seeing that I'm the only thing coming, and then stepping off the curb and going as far out as they dare... including inching forward more when I do go further out to try and avoid them.

    Maybe they sense that I'm a dirty forriner :P

    Also, I'm talking mostly about people doing this at crosswalks. When not at a crosswalk, pedestrians seem to keep well back unless they know for sure they're good, which makes sense.

    I guess, based on what Wilmington's Cow said, once they step out (even after seeing me coming) I am technically supposed to stop for them. (Am I interpreting that correctly?) But, I mean... if you looked both ways and saw a car coming, you might step out a bit, but you wouldn't edge as close to it as you could, would you? And you almost certainly wouldn't expect it to stop... unless you threw yourself in front of it, in which scenario I think we could all agree there's a problem. :P

    Posted 12 years ago #

  12. fimm
    Member

    Sorry, but what is a "crosswalk"?

    Posted 12 years ago #

  13. crowriver
    Member

    I believe it may be what is commonly referred to in the parlance as a 'pedestrian crossing' in these parts.

    Posted 12 years ago #

  14. kaputnik
    Moderator

    Nothing in the rulebooks says you can't play chicken with them (pedestrians wandering into your path on the road) and whizz by with inches to spare (at your own risk!)

    Posted 12 years ago #

  15. gembo
    Member

    I saw this crow on the Lang Whang this morning. it definitely saw me but it hopped on to the other side of the road from the field and continued hopping and looking at me as I approached it, just continued hopping and cleared my front wheel by a feather or two. it had wings and everything. Crows, eh!

    Posted 12 years ago #

  16. LaidBack
    Member

    As I've said before. There is no obligation for drivers and cyclists to run over (or into) pedestrians even if you have a green light and they have a red.
    The idea that roads are like railway lines is one much loved by some. Obstacles are there to go round. In festival many visitors don't realise that the city centre streets aren't (officially) pedestrianised.
    It is annoying when people don't look but expected.

    Posted 12 years ago #

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