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"Cyclists derailed" - Scotsman

(25 posts)

  1. Arellcat
    Moderator

    "It takes the painful experience of a visiting New Zealander (cf. Wednesday's Scotsman) to highlight the fact that Scotland's long distance trains don't provide reasonable space to carry bikes.

    Let me inform [the] fellow touring cyclist that in a lifetime of cycle touring across six continents I've never come across such impoverished travel facilities for bikes as demonstrated in Scotland by First Scotrail trains. We cyclists are now a species of barely tolerated pests, rather than - as in Denmark - sources of revenue.

    Contrast this with the picture in the late 1980s on the Kyle line when my son and I, with our bikes, took the Kyle train from Garve to Achnasheen. This was in the era of real trains, and the two guards' vans at the rear were absolutely stuffed with bikes and rucksacks.

    By reason of the poor quality trains now operated, First Scotrail kills off the cycle travel market at a stroke. What price green transport credentials now? The root of the problem lies in the poor quality of train design, with rolling stock in Scotland being built down to a price rather than up to a standard."

    - so writes a correspondent from Aberdeen, May 20th.

    I thought that it was more about maximising profit. Every bike not carried can mean a couple more seats, and more tickets being bought. Two guards vans could probably equate to a whole carriage of seats. Presumably (thinks Scotrail, I presume) the seat allocation will sell itself anyway, so who cares about carrying cyclists? Or, incredibly, might cycle tourists in fact be a better guarantee of ticket sales?

    Posted 13 years ago #
  2. cb
    Member

    The letter online

    Posted 13 years ago #
  3. LaidBack
    Member

    The fact is that the main trains north to Inverness from Edinburgh have often been too short in the past.
    ScotRail have apparently improved provision by putting on 5 coach trains (I have seen this but can't say how many times). Some three coach units now have four bike spaces now (in two groups of two). The older two coach ones have two (on West Highland where they have six).

    I wrote years ago to Transport Scotland and the Scottish Transport minister to suggest that we should take traffic off the A9 by running fast, frequent trains to Inverness with plenty of space. This route has most potential in my view as a way of getting people north. Visit Waverley on a saturday and see how overloaded the trains are with visitors. People off the flight from New York with wheely suitcases competing with bikes and prams etc. Despite fares being high they still havent reduced congestion either!

    I think the government is keen to have a train every hour from Edinburgh to Inverness. Track uggrade is around £50m. This has to compete with dualing the A9 which is much more expensive but could win more votes.

    My other suggestion was to power the railway with renewable electricity as we have a surplus in that area, which will have to be moved south anyway.

    Posted 13 years ago #
  4. cb
    Member

    "My other suggestion was to power the railway with renewable electricity "

    Any idea of the cost to electrify the line?

    Posted 13 years ago #
  5. LaidBack
    Member

    Of course if you just turn up without a reserved space on the Highland lines then you are at the mercy of the staff.
    Central belt is ok.

    Anyone wanting to minimise bike hassle anywhere in UK should use the online bike space booking at:
    Book bike spaces via National Express site

    Otherwise use ScotRails phone booking line.

    Posted 13 years ago #
  6. LaidBack
    Member

    Any idea of the cost to electrify the line?

    I'd guess it would be around the same as the new eight kilometres (five miles) of M74. £700m

    Business case much weaker though if it was looked at in 'transport corridor terms' then one person's fast railway is another person's quieter road.

    Posted 13 years ago #
  7. cb
    Member

    "£700m"

    This report states 1 billion for London to Swansea so £700m for Edin/Inverness sounds reasonable. I guess there'd be less bridges/tunnels/stations to deal with.

    Posted 13 years ago #
  8. Kim
    Member

    Yes note the extent of electrified lines and the priorities for further work.

    Just remind me where all this renewable power generation going to be??

    Posted 13 years ago #
  9. steveo
    Member

    To be fair those "priority" routes have a much larger population densities than the helands.

    Posted 13 years ago #
  10. LaidBack
    Member

    To be fair those "priority" routes have a much larger population densities than the helands.

    Yes but if we use that argument then no railways in any mountainous areas would be electric - yet they often are.

    The populations beside the A9 are quite high. West Highland is sparser I'd agree.

    Posted 13 years ago #
  11. Kim
    Member

    The population densities in some parts of the helands are among the fastest rising in Britain, hence the pressure to dual all of the A9, which would be a very short sighted approach.

    Posted 13 years ago #
  12. steveo
    Member

    Fast rising percentage wise but the corridor between Birmingham and London is basically suburbs its depressing.

    Half the pressure on the A9 is that its a death trap because people are in too much of a hurry so they over take lorries at stupid points and end up killing the people in the cars on the other side of the road or rush to the end of the dual carriage way and end up crushed in to the barriers..

    Posted 13 years ago #
  13. druidh
    Member

    steveo

    To be fair those "priority" routes have a much larger population densities than the helands.

    Are you confusing cause and effect?

    Posted 13 years ago #
  14. steveo
    Member

    Indeed there is a Chicken/egg scenario however what is done is done. Tbh though any one who has ever been down there wouldn't wish it on the highlands.

    On a cost per person basis its much better value to do these projects in the south. One of the other problems down there is the lines are at capacity there is no more space for extra trains there are two solutions build more line or run trains faster neither are cheap.

    Here the lines are far from capacity, the best solution would be for the current infrastructure to be used more efficiently, more trains, longer trains, better interchange between transport systems and extra provision for bikes. Unfortunately there is no impetus for First to do this since the last government gave them a virtual monopoly on the public transport in Scotland. Renationalisation seems to be the best option for the rail ways though i doubt thats going to happen in the next five years any way.

    Posted 13 years ago #
  15. Kim
    Member

    I have noticed a few threads on other forums where people from the Continent were complaining about how hard it was to get their bikes to Scotland by train (not everyone want to cycle from the ferry ports). Maybe it needs to be pointed to Scotrail (and other train operators) just how much cycle tourism is worth to the Scottish economy.

    Cycling tourism in Scotland is worth £20m in visitor spend, 100,000 trips (where cycling is the main purpose of the trip). £199m in visitor spend, 900,000 trips (where cycling forms part of a holiday).

    Not exactly small change, and it is a growing area.

    Posted 13 years ago #
  16. chdot
    Admin

    "Tourism has a turnover of £4 billion a year and is by far the country’s biggest industry."

    http://www.heraldscotland.com:80/mobile/news/politics/snp-under-fire-as-visitscotland-boss-is-forced-out-of-job-1.1031397

    Posted 13 years ago #
  17. TwoWheels
    Member

    The fact that cycling gets any recognition at all on the trains simply boggles my North American mind. Amtrak, the poor excuse we have for a passenger rail system in the U.S. leaves whether or not you can get a bike on board entirely up to the whim of the conductor. He's hungover, or lost his paycheck on poker last night, and it's "Sorry, pal, I can't let you bring this on board."

    And if you've got a recumbent bike, forget it. They aren't even allowed to be presented for consideration.

    Posted 13 years ago #
  18. Kim
    Member

    Had trouble getting a booking to take bikes on the train to Berwick on Tweed on Friday, there is no shortage of demand for taking bikes on trains.

    Posted 13 years ago #
  19. gembo
    Member

    Kim - To Berwick? this weekend? not a holiday or anything? My experience (outwith bank holidays) up and down to Berwick is a guardsvan with at least 12 slots for bikes and nobody else using them. I have only done this on trains leaving about 9 a.m. and coming back about 7pm. On way back I was booked on a train but we did the Bamburgh to Berwick route a little quicker than expected and chanced getting on an earlier train which worked out. This was a sunday evening? PeakFlow?

    Posted 13 years ago #
  20. Kim
    Member

    We had to take a far earlier train than planned because all the other were fully booked and there were only 3.5 bike spaces on the train. That was on Friday morning. They were the hanging type, one of the hangers was so low it would only have taken a child's bike.

    Great ride through the Borders, stopped over night in Gala. Went on Friday because the weather forecast for Sunday was poor, looks like this was a good decision!

    Posted 13 years ago #
  21. gembo
    Member

    Kim - sounds good and right on the button with weather. Do you know if the alternate route one that goes round the coast instead of inland from Berwick is fully functioning and if so what the sustrans mix of path/road/people's back gardens is like?

    Posted 13 years ago #
  22. druidh
    Member

    Just returned from Inverness. Must be a slightly longer train at this time of year as there was space for 12 bikes (2 per carriage). Having said that, it's easy to fir 3 if they have drop bars.

    I had to delay my return from the Friday to the Saturday as all Friday trains (and the early Saturday train) were already booked up for bikes.

    Posted 13 years ago #
  23. steveo
    Member

    [+] Embed the video | Video DownloadGet the Flash Videos

    This is quite a contrast to the video. Ahh the good old days with up to ten gears. :)

    Posted 13 years ago #
  24. SRD
    Moderator

    And Scotrail has managed to derail the cycle train to the north too:

    From Spokes: WHESTRAIL CHANGES

    The new Spokes Bulletin 107 has an advert and short article about the planned new WhestRail service, with up to 150 bike spaces (yes, 150) on its trains between Edinburgh/Glasgow and Fort William. Very sadly, the project has had to be withdrawn for 2010 [there is still a possibility of one train in late August] as ScotRail apparently has introduced some new ultra-competitive fares for that route, making the whestrail service financially unviable. However you might still like to check out their website for what you have missed, and for their 'heritage' rail steam trip. Whestrail hope to run the bike-friendly service in 2011, so if you might use it for a group trip please email to help give them confidence to go ahead."

    Posted 13 years ago #
  25. cb
    Member


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