Spent the best part of the morning at the RIE participating in a research project, which included filling out a questionnaire on 'mobility'. It had incredibly detailed questions about everything you do in a day, and how long you spend doing it, except that the section under 'transport' only included walking slowly or quickly, or sitting in a car/bus to get to work etc. No 'other' or 'cycling/jogging' etc. There was a further section on exercise done for fitness or fun, where after the 'normal' options (swimming, jogging) you could write in cycling, but absolutely no consideration that someone might get to work/shops etc in any way other than walking or in a car/bus. Obviously whoever designs these things had never come across active travel etc
CityCyclingEdinburgh Forum » Commuting
NHS
(25 posts)-
Posted 14 years ago #
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That's appalling, but sadly not surprising.
What did you say?...
Posted 14 years ago # -
Wrote in around the edges and mentioned it to the person running the study (who inevitably hadn't designed the surveys). Otherwise, it would have completely left out all my activity!
Posted 14 years ago # -
"Otherwise, it would have completely left out all my activity!"
What about the gardening??
Posted 14 years ago # -
not to mention all that ironing and dishwashing....
Posted 14 years ago # -
Just look at the size of car parks around hospitals and you will see the NHS attitude to active travel!
Posted 14 years ago # -
Errm you may remember hospitals are for sick people not all of them can manage to ride to a&e.
Posted 14 years ago # -
Actually was quite impressed by size and apparent dense usage of cycle parking at RIE - perhaps more noticeable if you go round the back than the front.
Posted 14 years ago # -
@steveo
I have never driven to hospital, I have been by bus, taxi, on foot and by bicycle, it is possible to get places without driving there. If more people (including hospital staff and visitors) chose to use active travel, there would be fewer sick people in hospital in the first place.Posted 14 years ago # -
"Actually was quite impressed by size and apparent dense usage of cycle parking at RIE"
Indeed. This is is only a fraction - though I think this is the University's bit.
Posted 14 years ago # -
I once cycled to an ultrasound at the John Radcliffe (East Oxford and up a long hill) from North Oxford, on a hot sunny day. Had drunk the requisite litre (or whatever) beforehand, but sweated so much my bladder was too empty for them to do the ultrasound when I got there!
But honestly Kim, what about a little more human kindness? RIE is not the easiest place to reach by bus - I have done that and taxis many times, but if I had a car am sure I would choose to drive, especially if unwell.
I'm sure the number of car journeys could be reduced a little, and that this would be a good thing for all, but it is a bit harsh to condemn everyone, especially after placing it at the outmost edge of the city.
Posted 14 years ago # -
I had to go to the RIE from Gorgie when I had a knee problem and could hardly walk. Life without a car is possible, in fact there was a time, not so long ago, when most people lived that way.
Posted 14 years ago # -
I've written this three times but every time it comes out more rude, but any way.
Yes it is possible to get to the ERI with out a car but if you have a sick relative in there you can either go by bike, by bus, by car or by taxi. Presuming not every one who visit people at the infirmary are able to ride that leaves bus car or taxi, now also assume that not every can afford the many pounds in taxi fare to get all the way to little France that leaves car or bus. Now since the bus takes and eternity to get there and you've probably got work in the morning and still got to have your dinner where are we, ah yes, car!
We can debate till were blue in the face about the relative merits of automobiles but the fact is modern cities have evolved around common car usage thus suburbs, commuters and bloody hospitals bloody miles from where people live. The rights and wrongs of it are now irrelevant since the deed is done the fact is now the best way to the ERI is by ambulance or car.
There was a time not that long ago that Edinburgh stopped way before the Gyle and the hospitals were all with in a few miles from the city centre, that time is now passed.
Posted 14 years ago # -
The 'question' is not so much how people who are unwell should get to ERI, but more the extent that the parking is for staff(?)
A reality is that many staff 'have' to live a long way away, due to the (relatively) remote site and the cost of housing in Edinburgh - plus public transport issues.
BUT adding lots more parking and failing to provide decent cycle access - not least from the flat easterly direction - is making things worse.
Posted 14 years ago # -
@chdot "A reality is that many staff 'have' to live a long way away, due to the (relatively) remote site and the cost of housing in Edinburgh"
Sorry but are we talking about the ERI here, the Inch is within walking distance of the ERI and is hardly the most expensive area in Edinburgh! You can get very affordable within easy reach of the ERI (I have friends with a two bed semi about to go on the market if you are looking for something) and it is also relatively well served by public transport.
The reality is that the ERI would be closer to the main road if there wasn't such a large area of car parking space in the way. One of the main reasons for moving it from the centre of town was to provide more car parking!
Posted 14 years ago # -
Not sure how much staff actually use the parking, my friend who worked there while doing her nursing training used to drive from her house in Kirknewton would drive to Balgreen to sit on the 38 for an hour and her man would have to pick her up at the end of the shift since the bus service would finish before her. Its probably different for the paper pushers though.
The Inch mightn't be expensive but nurses don't always work the same hospital three days in a row, so your choice is commute to livingstone from Little France or the other way around.
The walk from the road across car park is fairly inconsequential when you consider its about 5 miles from the city centre.
Posted 14 years ago # -
"Sorry but are we talking about the ERI here, the Inch is within walking distance of the ERI and is hardly the most expensive area in Edinburgh! You can get very affordable within easy reach of the ERI"
Yes I know that too. I have friends there - one works at ERI. But we are not talking 'rational' here. Where people are 'willing to live' and the travel choices they make can be based on mis-information, prejudice, status etc.
There are cheap/affordable/rented houses in Niddrie/Craigmillar too. A lot of work was done during the planning/building phase to increase the chances of 'local' people getting jobs.
One 'simple' measure wasn't implemented - a decent (flat) walk/cycle route from Greendykes. That would have made it too easy for 'neds' to get to the hospital for dubious purposes - another prejudice.
The council was also warned about 'parking chaos' likely in Craigour etc. This was ignored until after the hospital opened and the residents' fears were proved to be correct.
It was also several years before parking was banned on the cycle lanes on Old Dalkeith Road.
By contrast the new QMU was built on the assumption that there would be almost no on-site parking. OK it helps that it's next to a railway station, but it's mostly only an hourly service.
Decisions on parking at the ERI 10 years ago were understandable, but now??
I know the bus service isn't great, but if you plan to increase the road congestion and reduce the number of potential passengers by allowing lots of parking it's not likely to get any better.
Politically it's a choice between 'accepting' that 'everyone' has a car and should be helped to use it, or planning to have 15% of journeys by 2020 by bike (and putting sufficient resources into that), or???
Posted 14 years ago # -
And of course, most people do not decide on where to live based on one job, but on two, so in any couple, one may live 'near work' but the other doesn't. Not to mention that in this day and age, given frequency of job changes and redeployments, we cannot expect people to move house every time they get a new job.
Posted 14 years ago # -
But the only reason the job market is so flexible is because everybody is willing to drive 30-40 miles each way... we made a decision to be within non-car distance of work, and haven't taken jobs that conflict with that (or moved house).
It can be done...
Posted 14 years ago # -
@Dave - yes us too, sort of... At present that means a 3-4 hour 'commute' by bike and train for one of us, and a 7 minute bike for the other. Sometimes there isn't much in the way of 'choice' involved.
Posted 14 years ago # -
Politically it's a choice between 'accepting' that 'everyone' has a car and should be helped to use it, or planning to have 15% of journeys by 2020 by bike
That seems to be the 'dominant' mood at moment. Forth Bridge decision seems to verify this with the idea of a new 'car only' bridge, with the old 'falling down' bridge to be used by buses and bikes.
The rule is that whatever space is left is allocated for 'unimportant' vehicles.Posted 14 years ago # -
Here in lies the rub, we all know that the car is a problem, but we are bending over to make it easier for people to use cars at the expense of more sustainable forms of transport. Until the use of the car is restricted and the effective subsidies cut, will we get a modal shift.
You only have to look to the Continent to see that it can be done. The Dutch don't use bicycle to get about because they don't have cars. Car ownership in the Netherlands is as high (or higher) as Scotland, but car use is lower, and that has been achieved by doing things such as restrictions on parking.
Posted 14 years ago # -
Yes, Kim, your basic point is entirely correct, and especially as it applies to trips into town, shopping etc. I do think we have to relax it a little with regards to hospitals.
And we need to have similar restrictions imposed everywhere, because there's no point in making parking so restricted in some places that people decide that it makes more sense to drive out of town to shop, because the parking is easier. Why do people like going to Fountainbridge and Ocean Terminal? because it is easy to park there. There needs to be a balance between 'driving businesses out of town' and 'encouraging people to use other modes of transport to get into centre of city shops'.
The merchants lobby in town, with its conviction that it needs more, cheaper, parking is obviously out of touch, but as long as people can build big shopping centres and superstores on the outskirts, then they will suffer, and so will all of us who want to see a vibrant city centre.
Question - why does Glasgow seem to accomplish this better? is it the underground? how do most people get to Buchanan Street etc?
Posted 14 years ago # -
When ever I go I drive (Sorry). I always regret driving as its a bloody pain the arse but when we (i never go myself) are through we visit people out of the city centre. Plus as long as the train is dearer for >1 person i'll take the cheapest option.
Glasgow city centre has lots of cheap parking that is perhaps why the shopping "is better" there than here and why Edinburgh folk use the Gyle or Livingston instead of Princes Street. Might also have something to do with the motorway running through the middle...
Posted 14 years ago # -
We should impose a large levy on free parking spaces in out-of-town developments - set at a level where it is not economically viable for them to undercut local shopping.
Simple, quick, effective. Never going to happen.
Posted 14 years ago #
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