CityCyclingEdinburgh was launched on the 27th of October 2009 as "an experiment".
IT’S TRUE!
CCE is 15years old!
Well done to ALL posters
It soon became useful and entertaining. There are regular posters, people who add useful info occasionally and plenty more who drop by to watch. That's fine. If you want to add news/comments it's easy to register and become a member.
RULES No personal insults. No swearing.
Here's the promised video of the crap overtake I was subjected to this morning:
A few things to note:
i) the overtake was initiated in the crossing point where the road narrows
ii) the left turn indicators were going during the overtake
iii) the car was also braking as it was trying to overtake
I guess the kids were late for school at Leith Academy?
(P.S sorry for poor vid quality - I did this quickly during my tea break at work!)
Isn't it illegal to overtake on zigzag lines? Does this include cycles or just cars?
Scary and it happens every day.
I had some numpty in a nice Fabia VRS this morning just after i met Anth.
He overtook ay high rpm to join the queue of traffic on red i was slowing to join.
He then sped off on green to then have to stop again at the filmhouse. THEN decided red at SL was not for him and he was going to go. Just as the western approach went green and cars came across the junction.
Clown.
"Isn't it illegal to overtake on zigzag lines?"this specific offence only applies to motor vehicles overtaking motor vehicles
"Whilst any motor vehicle (in this regulation called “the approaching vehicle”) or any part of it is within the limits of a controlled area and is proceeding towards the crossing, the driver of the vehicle shall not cause it or any part of it—The Zebra, Pelican and Puffin Pedestrian Crossings Regulations and General Directions 1997(a)to pass ahead of the foremost part of any other motor vehicle proceeding in the same direction;"
@thebikechain, perhaps it was poornumpty's choice of car that made his driving so erratic. The Fabia VRS has about half a second of turbo lag, which on top of the generous torque from the engine makes driving them quite tiring and a little surprising.
Of course, when you're used to it, you probably begin to enjoy it and prod the car whenever you can. :(
@earthowned, I don't wish to suggest you contributed to this idiotic driving. However, by the looks of it you are fairly well to the left of the road. Had it been me going through those traffic island gaps I'd have been in dead centre primary to stop folk overtaking. May not have stopped the idiotic cutting up but it might have made them think twice: they could have undertaken instead mind you...
"The Fabia VRS has about half a second of turbo lag, which on top of the generous torque from the engine makes driving them quite tiring and a little surprising"
Not that I advocate quick driving.... But while I've never understood the desire for massive top speed, I do enjoy the occasional blip of quick acceleration (following full risk assessment).
My car is also 'blessed' with an ever so slightly laggy turbo (though nothing on, say, the old Saab 900 which was legendary for causing rear end shunts) - young chap in a Golf GTi pulled alongside one day. Revving away, he was off the line and away. Then my turbo kicked in. I wasn't actually racing. I hit the speed limit and foot was off the pedal - he of course disappeared into the distance.
I remember Top Gear doing a little 'old vesion/new version' test with three different cars. They had a Nissan 300ZX against it's very very modern sibling in a drag race. Before it even started I said (to the television) modern one is naturally aspirated (I think that's the case) the 300ZX has a twin turbo - new car will go into a commanding lead, 300ZX will storm by when those turbos kick in. And such was the case.
Apologies for boring car chat. Maybe we need a car thread... Hang on...
WC: "Maybe we need a car thread... Hang on..."
What happened to that? One minute I'm composing a reply based on vague recollections of Top Trumps, the Observer Book of Cars and Matchbox models* and the next it's gone.
*fwiw: the Lamborghini Muira, Lancia Stratos, Lotus Europa and DeTomaso Pantera.
T'was pulled. I'll maybe start a thread about helmets and Mikael Colville-Anderson instead ;)
@crowriver: personally I find vehicular cycling has it's plus and minor points. You're damned if you do and you're damned if you don't.
Did I miss some handbagging? Damn. :-(
@earthowned, it is true: if motorists think you are "in the way/in the middle of the road" ie. in primary, they'll beep, overtake at the first possible opportunity, maybe even do a "punishment pass" or scream at you. For myself, I prefer to p1ss drivers off rather than have them try and pass me where the road is too narrow to overtake safely.
That's a difficult one. I'd rather not have an 'angry' driver behind me. Nor make a driver potentially act angrily around more cyclists because of the way I've acted towards him.
At the same time I'd rather not be passed too closely. However, on balance, close passes are nasty but 9for me pesonally, I realise the situation is different for others) I'm confident enough at staying upright when passed closely. There may be that incident where someone gets 'too' close, but I think there's more likelihood of something nasty happened if, as well as being incompetent, I've p1ssed off that driver...
In my experience it is a minority of drivers that get angered by me holding them up temporarily as I go past a traffic island. If I know a driver has slowed behind me I'll normally try to let them through once I'm past the narrow bit. It's pretty rare in fact that the following driver will get so angry they do something aggressive.
One thing I have seen occasionally is them overtaking on the other side of the traffic island, ie. in the oncoming lane, sometimes with other vehicles approaching from the opposite direction. Frankly if they're in such a hurry, and stupid enough to do that, I'd rather they were not able to overtake at close quarters!
@WC - Despite your comfort with them, close passes are objectively dangerous. As cyclists we've all deviated from a straight line intentionally or unintentionally, and that deviation can be extraordinarily rapid and without warning compared to four wheel vehicles - we can "jink" in ways of which they can only dream! If that deviation occurs during a close pass, then we're in serious trouble...
So I think it's a case of playing the odds. Most close passes are thoughtless, or unknowing, and are likely to be executed by the majority of drivers (in my opinion!). Adopting a primary position prevents these close passes.
Only a small percentage of drivers, when presented with a cyclist in primary, will then use their vehicle as a (threatening) weapon. Again, in my opinion, but this is borne out by "news" where the novel gets airtime (road rage assualts), and by commentators (media or online) that confess to be "scared of cyclists" = scared of hitting a cyclist.
So again playing the odds - how many drivers are likely to be distracted, unaware of the hazard they're creating, or thoughtless compared to how many are likely to be sociopathic killers, the sort who would knife you for spilling their pint?
The old adage perhaps almost applies - never attribute to conspiracy what can be attributed to incompetence.
Robert
Hi there. 1st post.
Just back in to commuting after a bit of a break due to an office move and 2 kids.
I've never realy had any problems from cars behind when I've been in primary position. I think as long as you look like you aren't dawdling and there are hazards about, 'most' drivers don't mind. I do give a little wave if someone's been stuck behind for a while. Mind you, now I've cursed myself and will get a nutter next week.
Nearly all the issies I have are with drivers coming towards me from front or side. Perhaps my presence from behind is more obvious! I do have a D lock slung from my bag on my right-hand side, though. Fastest draw in the east....
Alright Anthony - Ostukaresama deshita
Which is why I said "... for me pesonally, I realise the situation is different for others"
I was primarily replying to the position initialy posited (that it transpires I appear to have misunderstood that, "I prefer to p1ss drivers off rather than have them try and pass me where the road is too narrow to overtake safely." I read that as actively p1ssing off every single driver behind when the road is narrow.
Ostukaresama deshita
Hmmm, either huge coincidence, or someone from one of my Taiko classes... Trying to remember whose surname was 'Cox'! (I'm really just terrible with names...)
Maybe I should have phrased that as preferring to potentially p1ss off drivers. I'm not out to deliberately annoy drivers in general. However as we all know some will get angry whatever you do. I'm aware my approach may seem impolite to some, but I don't care because it's my safety I've got to think about.
Ultimately I've learned over the years it is safer to take primary when the road is deliberately narrowed, such as at a traffic island. I've had plenty of experience of close shaves at pinch points, so I try my hardest to prevent them now: they are not at all enjoyable!
It's Neil - in Porty.
See, that's what I thought, but didn't want to say in case I was completely wrong!
Allo Neil! You back on the course (taking this completely OT). Planning on meeting for a drink with Rebecca, Ken, Stella and George sometime soon - I'll drop you a line!
Hi Coxy - thanks for posting on this thread :)
Just wanted to add that when I do take primary I try to give a big thumbs up to the drivers behind when its safe to overtake and I normally get a grateful wave back.
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