CityCyclingEdinburgh Forum » Infrastructure

Cycle parking in Edinburgh, where have we got to?

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  1. Kim
    Member

    Cycle parking in Edinburgh, where have we got to? This is my experience, what are yours?

    Posted 11 years ago #
  2. Baldcyclist
    Member

    Even if they were to install the racks.

    Parking your bike outside, at night, in Edinburgh, good luck with that.

    Posted 11 years ago #
  3. The Council needs to find a box so it can then think outside it. There are loads of really innovative parking solutions out there (many of which would address leaving a bike locked up outside) but they seem to be ignored.

    Hadn't realised people were being asked (told) to remove bike sheds, even if hidden behind hedges and the like. I presume following complaints from neighbours.

    In general bike parking in Edinburgh is poor as well though. Save for the train stations (which isn't really anything to do with the council I guess) there is precisely no covered parking in the city centre, and only a few little clumps of sheffield stands. I still remember my reaction when I first saw the utterly immense bike parking beside the train station in Amsterdam. A multi-storey bike park! And completely rammed full. I just laughed. Obviously we don't have the cycling numbers to justify something on that scale, but just some proper provision would be nice.

    But, we're a model cycling city, so I presume we're doing it right and everyone else is doing it wrong.

    Posted 11 years ago #
  4. kaputnik
    Moderator

    When so many of the most basic racks fail the bike-rack test of being able to easily and safely lock a bike to them, I don't think we've got anywhere.

    Until we can get the basic rack right - no more crummy wheelbenders, no more "novel" shapes like the ones at Waitrose, no more expensive designer racks like the ones outside Parliament, no more Sheffield Stands with tubing so wide that you can't get a D-lock around it, no more stands bolted into the ground with some bolts that can be released with a household spanner, I don't even think we should be encouraging or pressurising the council to provide more. It shouldn't be difficult, there should be a set of guidelines that specify a couple of different stands suitable for different locations, how they should be installed etc. They don't need to be complex or expensive, the "Edinburgh stand" (Sheffield with an extra tube) in galvanised steel is more than appropriate and with sufficient spacing from walls and obstructions and the neighbouring stand is more than appropriate for most bikes. They could even brand them up and stamp some stupid slogan like "parkyourbikeinburgh" into the steel.

    The council is surely in a position to dictate what sort of "street furniture" can be installed and to mandate that new developments install them to their specifications.

    Cyclehoops seem popular as they are cheap and easy to install, however they offer something for popping into the shops, they aren't proper racks and they can result in pavements being fouled. The cyclists equivalent of those "loading bays" that the council loves to paint over cycle lanes.

    Posted 11 years ago #
  5. ruggtomcat
    Member

    The only decent parking in Edinburgh is at the city chambers. they new haymarket racks are covered and CCTV'd but I dont think its a good area.

    There is one more place with great parking thats not covered where i feel ok leaving a bike overnight, but Im keeping it to myself. :D

    Posted 11 years ago #
  6. DaveC
    Member

    Anth said "I still remember my reaction when I first saw the utterly immense bike parking beside the train station in Amsterdam. A multi-storey bike park! And completely rammed full. I just laughed. Obviously we don't have the cycling numbers to justify something on that scale, but just some proper provision would be nice."

    Why don't we turn this around. Imagine non or very little car parking in the city centre, people would say, "surely we don't have the parking to justify something on this scale". Well why don't they make room by adding cycle parking to 'entice' cyclists in. St James centre has a few secure cycle lockers as dones the bus station. At the moment thay are semi private but there is nothingn (but money) to stop them (the CEC that is).

    If they slowly removed car parking and added cycle parking people might migrate to cycling. The bigest problem though is cycle parking isn't a revenue generator, like carparking. I'm sure I saw something in the news this summer which showed secure cycle parking twinned with showers and lockers like a cycle multistory (bikes parked underground) in busy office areas. But I can't find a link to one.

    Posted 11 years ago #
  7. SRD
    Moderator

    Bike parking is desperately needed on Princes Street. But other than that I agree with K'nik - bog standard Sheffield/Edinburgh stands please.

    Posted 11 years ago #
  8. Baldcyclist
    Member

    "The bigest problem though is cycle parking isn't a revenue generator, like carparking."

    Maybe that is the trouble, what if they were self sufficient, or made a small profit? Small charge to park your bike securely, council doesn't have to fork out (over time), every one happy.

    Posted 11 years ago #
  9. amir
    Member

  10. DaveC
    Member

    The thing I saw (and I'm sure it was being built in Horsham - but google knows not) a dutch modelled underground secure parking. You take your bike in, lock it in a secure environment, and then can access showers and lockers, all at a cost. I just can't find anything online.

    Posted 11 years ago #
  11. steveo
    Member

    One of the multi stories around the omni has heavy metal cages for locking ones bike it with a secure point to lock to once in the cage. They want a pound but not sure if that's a deposit or a one off charge.

    Either way I'd be unlikely to pay to lock my bike... there in (probably) lies the problem.

    Posted 11 years ago #
  12. Kim
    Member

    DaveC is right that parking is key, one of the key drivers encouraging people to bring cars into the city is the plentiful availability of car parking. The way that Copenhagen and many other cities became cycle friendly was be restricting car parking. Copenhagen has a policy of remove 5% of car parking per year, interestingly it took 40 years before motorist started to complain about the policy and that was because there was very little car parking left.

    Coming back to cycle parking, I wonder how many here would be willing to pay, a modest charge, for cycle parking if there were facilities like this, this or even this!

    Posted 11 years ago #
  13. "Well why don't they make room by adding cycle parking to 'entice' cyclists in"

    It's a nice idea. The parking in Amsterdam had space for something like 5000 bikes (conservative estimate) - I don't think in our wildest dreams we could justify 5,000 parking spaces for bikes in one location in the city. And I think the infrastructure of how to get to that parking in the first place would entice more than having somewhere to park at the final destination.

    Bike parking is a very nice to have. A way of gettign about is possibly more important. Happy to be shouted down on that though.

    Posted 11 years ago #
  14. "The way that Copenhagen and many other cities became cycle friendly was be restricting car parking"

    And green waves; and re-arranging one-way systems; and segregated lanes; and bike-priority green lights. Car parking is certainly a facet - but I'm not sure that restricting car parking was the way Copenhagen became cycle friendly...

    Posted 11 years ago #
  15. Kim
    Member

    Anth, it was the parking restriction that came first, along with a limited cycle lane network, the rest came later. Ask Jan Gehl if you are not sure, it was his idea. He has also repeatedly suggested that Edinburgh do the same.

    Sadly we have a council which want to do the opposite and then wonders why things get worst and not better.

    Posted 11 years ago #
  16. DaveC
    Member

    Anth "I don't think in our wildest dreams we could justify 5,000 parking spaces for bikes in one location in the city."

    How many parking spaces are there in Waverley? Anyone?

    Posted 11 years ago #
  17. chdot
    Admin

    http://www.networkrail.co.uk/aspx/9494.aspx

    Doesn't say - but it'll be hundreds not thousands.

    Posted 11 years ago #
  18. "Anth, it was the parking restriction that came first"

    I didn't say it didn't come first, I said it wasn't the only thing that created a cycle culture. Which you've agreed with, "...along with a limited cycle lane network, the rest came later" If only cycle parking, and limited car parking, were needed, then why bother with the rest.

    "The way that Copenhagen and many other cities became cycle friendly was be restricting car parking"

    "How many parking spaces are there in Waverley? Anyone?"

    I'd be stunned if there were anything coming anywhere close to 5,000 spaces.

    Posted 11 years ago #
  19. Arellcat
    Moderator

    I've often thought it interesting that while London is the home of the Brompton, the parking that most suits it is the Edinburgh Stand on account of the second crossbar (other bikes with small wheels and low stepover height are of course also available).

    The best thing about cycling is that you can more or less stop anywhere. But because bicycles are all exposed, and not possessed of immobilisers and great weight, they like to be parked close to their owners. That is why we need more parking.

    Posted 11 years ago #
  20. Baldcyclist
    Member

    "they like to be parked close to their owners. That is why we need more parking."

    Perhaps a permit scheme similar to the one that exists now for cars. Again if you can make the argument that over x period of years the facilities will be cost neutral...

    Posted 11 years ago #
  21. crowriver
    Member

    How many parking spaces are there in Waverley? Anyone?

    I haven't counted them, but thinking about the layout, the fact there are 4 bikes on each 'double decker' rack, and only maybe 20 to 30 of those, plus a few Sheffield stands dotted around.....I'd say maybe 200 spaces tops. That might overestimate it.

    Posted 11 years ago #
  22. chdot
    Admin

    Did count cycle parking once.

    Seem to remember it was around 100.

    "
    New Street: Long Stay - 617 spaces Long Stay - disabled spaces have been relocated within the long term car park due to station improvement works.

    "

    http://www.nationalrail.co.uk/stations/edb/details.html

    Posted 11 years ago #
  23. crowriver
    Member

    Did count cycle parking once.

    Seem to remember it was around 100.

    They have added more since it moved round the back of the station. So probably somewhere between 100-200.

    Posted 11 years ago #
  24. Kim
    Member

    The proposed pilot on-street residential cycle parking scheme, will be a permit scheme similar to the one that exists now for cars and so should be cost neutral in the longer term.

    Posted 11 years ago #
  25. Peterward2008
    Member

    London Concept Gym

    I like the concept here (though perhaps not the price).

    Posted 11 years ago #
  26. cb
    Member

    "Bike parking is a very nice to have. A way of gettign about is possibly more important. Happy to be shouted down on that though."

    I think for me, the point is that bike parking is relatively very easy to implement. Take out a parking space, stick in six or eight Sheffield stands at, say, 50 locations across the city centre.
    That would be an easy (very basic, albeit) start surely.

    Posted 11 years ago #
  27. cb
    Member

    I read this View From the Cyclepath post on Friday...

    http://www.aviewfromthecyclepath.com/2012/10/they-came-they-saw-september-2012-study.html

    ...which mentions some pretty swish indoor cycle parking at a cultural centre.

    That evening I happened to be going to an event at the National gallery. It was a bit of a different experience.

    However there is bike parking inside the fence at the SE corner of the RSA. Nice green painted Sheffield stands. At one point I thought my bike has been locked in, but the gate was just pushed closed and not locked. I was told that it doesn't get locked, but don't quote me on that.

    Posted 11 years ago #
  28. Kim
    Member

    That would certainly be a good start. Three years ago when I first looked at this issue there were 1,697 public cycle parking spaces in Edinburgh compared with 32,377 official public car parking spaces. I am not sure much has changed. Apart from a few cycle hoops about the place.

    Posted 11 years ago #
  29. "32,377 official public car parking spaces"

    Do we know if that includes the permit places or not? If it doesn't then the figure might have gone down, but it's still massively high (especially when many workplaces have their own parking, so that figure isn't the only extent to car parking in the city).

    Interesting reading up about Copenhagen and seeing how they actually seem to be working towards getting more cars into the city (based on hypotheses above, they're actually putting more car parking space sinto the city, an additional 1726 a couple of years back according to Copenhagenize - and the Wiki entry on Copenhagen actually says that the main arterial routes into the city are gridlock at 'rush' hour).

    Lest the above posts makes it look like I don't think space should be redistributed, I do think we need fewre car spaces, and very easy win with cycle spaces in their place. But the majority of people who say they won't cycle say that it's because the 'roads are dangerous' and not 'because I can't park my bike'.

    Posted 11 years ago #
  30. PS
    Member

    I feel like there's been an improvement over the past few years, although all of this obviously depends on where you want to cycle to - if the Council sticks new racks in on Leith Walk they ain't much use to you if you want to cycle to Princes Street...

    New(ish) racks I've noticed in useful (to me) places over the past few years:
    George Street - one or two racks in the middle of the street - presume they have replaced a parking space? Would be nice to have more - maybe they'll come if they fully pedestrianise the street?
    Chambers Street - racks again in the middle of the street, next to the statues.
    Rose Street - think there have been a few new racks in there - that's where I'd park if going to Princes Street.
    Clerk Street - the odd useful rack on side streets - ideal for the Queens Hall.
    Grindlay Street - new racks next to Nandos - ideal for Filmhouse/Usher Hall.

    [Caveat - these are new racks to me, they may have been there a while before I noticed them...]

    It'd be a nice statement if the Council rolled out a load of new racks in lots of high-profile spaces, but I suspect their approach is more piece-meal, x new racks a year, so as not to blow the budget.

    Posted 11 years ago #

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