@Arellcat, I've been working on that desire line for the last week - it's coming along nicely :-)
The ramp to the west/left of the pedestrian steps is completely unnecessary. If they'd thought about it (!), the platform designers would have realised that they already had half of the required ramp, to the east/right of the steps, where the path naturally drops down toward the underpass. So all they actually had to build was a flat 2-metre section of path linking the platform with the path. Coincidentally, perhaps just a couple of yards to the right of where that desire-line is. Cycles going to/from the underpass would thus have off to one side of the main pedestrian flow.
Instead, there's an over-engineered work-creation-scheme that is the overly tight new ramp, which brings cycles directly into conflict with pedestrians, at 90 degrees, 10 yards after they get off a train. Good work, designers, you must be proud of that one.
CityCyclingEdinburgh Forum » General Edinburgh
Tram latest
(2182 posts)-
Posted 11 years ago #
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worth posting again to emphasise above point;
It just seems so "duh!" to direct cycle traffic straight though the exit from the stations / interchange route between tram and rail station. It's like sticking an A-road at right angles across a motorway.Posted 11 years ago # -
Thanks for the pictures @arellcat I had hoped to get through to hear Paul Salveson, on Tuesday night as he was a key mover in getting the Northern Rail Cycling Forum effectively established, and delivered when I suggested that his workload (as the original chair) would be greatly assisted by having a couple of volunteers from the group as the secretariat in return for free rail travel, to carry out that work. Brilliant as we had in place a retired senior civil servant who knew exactly the right protocol when Norman Baker came to address a meeting.
Better get rolling Slough tomorrow and need to catch 04.28.
Love the desire line - all it needs is a bit of guerrella path building one night, especially if there is a pile of Type 1 Macadam graded stone lying around nearby. Shame about the lamp post though could be tricky on downhill direction when it gets muddy.
I'd be interested to know if its the standard Edilon-Sidra compound being used Kraiburg (who I've been working with re veloSTRAIL) has found a way to resolve the meniscus effect, as the flexible filler 'adheres' to 3 faces of the gap and thus naturally pre-loads the faces to shear off as the compound shrinks.
Posted 11 years ago # -
It just seems so "duh!" to direct cycle traffic straight though the exit from the stations / interchange route between tram and rail station.
Devil's advocate here, but CEC probably didn't have that much of an alternative because the Cultins access is on the wrong side. EDP is clearly the interchange for passengers to and from the airport by tram, and has 'designed' the cycle route away from peds to try to reduce the conflict once it's patronised and busy. But in doing so they've made it so cumbersome to use—I used the word 'tortuous' before and I think that's particularly appropriate in an Edinburgh context—that people being human will prefer a little bit of "Oops! Sorry! Hello! Pingping!" to practising their bike manoeuvering skills every time. I don't want to risk ripping my panniers on the sharp edges of a stupid diversion route.
Don't get me started on the access to Hermiston Gate shops though. I stood staring at the route yesterday until I got cold because I couldn't understand why the ped crossing was located where it was and that they had blocked off the most sensible cut-through in the hedge. The official cut-through was blocked by the usual bollards and two big stacks of shopping trolleys. But This Is Edinburgh, where even wheelie bins have higher priority than bicycles.
Posted 11 years ago # -
"
CITY leaders have launched a major offensive to ensure elderly and disabled people will be able to travel for free on Edinburgh’s trams – in a move backed by an Evening News campaign.
"
Posted 11 years ago # -
"CLARITY NEEDED ON TRAM CONCESSION ARRANGEMENTS"
"
This is because it is envisioned that the trams will replace many of the bus routes coming from the west of Edinburgh into the city centre.Without extending the concessionary scheme to the trams, bus routes would need to be maintained, undermining the environmental and traffic congestion related benefits the trams will bring.
"
http://www.sarahboyack.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/e-newsletter-January-2013.pdf
Posted 11 years ago # -
This is because it is envisioned that the trams will replace many of the bus routes coming from the west of Edinburgh into the city centre.
Errm, wasn't there chat of LRT removing just 4 buses from their fleet due to the trams? They only "replace" one bus service and supplement another, I can't imagine people needing to get from the west to Leith areas would want to take a tram to the west end and then get a 22, when they could just get the 22...
Posted 11 years ago # -
The tram - by virtue of running off-street, alongside a railway and through the side of a park - does a splendid job of bypassing many of the population centres of West Edinburgh, whose residents might otherwise have used it.
It'll be good for users of the 22, so long as they don't want to go any further than town.
Posted 11 years ago # -
I think the 22 will 'definitely' disappear.
(At least west of StASq.)
Posted 11 years ago # -
"The trams are on time and within budget"
"These are not the droids you're looking for"
...
Posted 11 years ago # -
Could be worse, if it was a motorway they'd insist on building all of it even if it's three or four times over budget and forty years late. Then come with a statement that it was completed on time and on budget. M74 extension, for example. Next up, Aberdeen Western Peripheral Route, and oh yes, Forth Addictional Crossing.
Posted 11 years ago # -
AULD REEKY
12:12 PM on 23/01/2013I can remember the "old white haired bag lady" Jenny Dawe down on Princes Street in December 2009 claiming that the "tram system" for Edinburgh was "on time and on budget" that was for a "whole system" commencing in 2010 - so how are we on time and on budget now for not even half a system?????
Posted 11 years ago # -
The question of the 22 is perplexing. If they cut it and force commuters to change at St Andrew Sq then they'll have to offer no (large) increase in fares or commuters will complain and may go elsewhere -> do First Buss (SMT) still operate in Edinburgh? An other company could come in and re introduce a 22 (if SMT/who ever now don't operate the) service and they could capture a segment of the 22 (cross town) market.
Posted 11 years ago # -
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In the initial design for Edinburgh Park Station Tramstop the cycle route through this area was on the north side of the platform. Concerns were raised on this design by both the operator and the Independent Competent Person (who assesses the design in place of the HMRI since the rail safety regulations changed). They expressed concerns about cyclists interacting with passengers on the actual platform and at the tram rail crossings. To address their concerns the tram designer moved the cycleway northwards and introduced a landscape strip between this facility and the platform. In addition cyclists are not permitted to cycle over the tram crossing. If they choose to cross the rails at this point they are required to dismount and push their bikes.
In South St Andrews Street a temporary filler has been installed between the rails and the road surface until weather conditions are suitable for the permanent filler to be applied. This filler is deliberately set below the road surface to protect it when tram are operating. Experience from other rail systems confirmed that if this filler is not set below the road surface it can be plucked out by the tram wheels.
I hope this is of assistance.
Regards
.... ....
Tram Team
"
Posted 11 years ago # -
Presumably the council will not allow competition along the tram route - that would seriously undermine the business case.
It would be amusing if First were able to offer a faster airport express bus from Waverley Bridge than the tram option :P
Posted 11 years ago # -
Well, I had another long look at Edinburgh Park yesterday. Cyclists who want to get from the Gyle to Hermiston Gait will have about four options.
1) Kaputnik's green line. Underpass at Cultins Road > EDP obstacle course > dismount > pedestrian crossing > pavement > access path by Curry's.
2) Kaputnik's green line, modified. Underpass at Cultins Road > EDP obstacle course > ride all the way down the airport-bound tram platform > pedestrian crossing > pavement > access path by Curry's.
Of course, cycling across the rails at the designated point, and cycling on a tram platform, are verboten!. It's probably verboten even if you're disabled and ride a recumbent trike.
3) Underpass at Cultins Road > follow path left to flat crossing at Bankhead Drive > Cultins Road > dropped kerb > pavement > access path by Curry's.
The flat crossing hasn't been built yet. The access to Cultins Road involves the spurious No Entry section, which can be avoided legally by cycling up the steep hill to Bankhead Terrace, then back down Cultins Road. The dropped kerbs are still barriered off. Optionally one could use the narrow cut-through by the supermarket, before the bottom of the hill, but this is less dangerous than the ped crossing at EDP will be.
4) Lochside Crescent > Lochside Avenue > big roundabout > Hermiston Gait road access.
Fine if you don't mind a huge diversion and a big roundabout with fast vehicles.
Posted 11 years ago # -
Posted 11 years ago #
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Typical chipwrapper. Don't know the name of our city's most famous square is St. Andrew Square, not St. Andrews or St. Andrew's Square.
Posted 11 years ago # -
Interesting - I was at the All Party Parliamentary Light Rail Group meeting on Tuesday. John Parry was there - he and Lewis Lesley have highlighted the low cost and higher rate of delivery for tram systems across the channel - some are costing well under half as much per Km as the Edinburgh project.
In the UK Lewis is planning to build a tram route in Preston at no cost to the Council, whilst in Birkenhead Peel Holdings plans to have a light rail system for the massive Wirral Waters development of the old docks site, with a maxim to avoid dependence on any government funding, as it can so easily introduce factors that delay the work, not present when there are commercial backers.
The Wirral project has many smart thinking aspects - it will start with trams bought secondhand from Blackpool which will be remanufactured from the bare frame (at a lower cost than new build). Thes may well need replacing earlier than a new tram, but will reduce the initial costs before the system gets to start earning money. There will be as little on street track as possible, and some of the track will be refurbished dock sidings, currently being cleared and checked, as a training scheme for unemployed people who want a qualification to get work with Network Rail. The icing on the cake is that they have secured secondhand substations for the DC traction supply, displaced by a power supply upgrade project on another rail system which uses the same DC voltage.
The same principle of getting a service running (and earning) as quickly as possible is apparent in the methods used to construct tram tracks elsewhere. This system sets up the rails on adjustable baseplates, and almost immediately trams can run over them at low speed. The baseplates are secured with a mass concrete pour (no time consuming reinforcement), and trams start running over the track, as the street is built back up to the final finished level between services.
Here is an animation of a construction method used. By comparison the Edinburgh track is a really heavyweight system.
http://www.strail.de/index.php?id=846&L=1
As an aside someone noted that CAF, the tram supplier has had to wait until December 2012, to finally get a long enough stretch of completed track to carry out testing to top speeds.
Posted 11 years ago # -
Meanwhile in Edinburgh -
Posted 11 years ago # -
So, as a number of folk have suspected and/or opined over the years, Edinburgh has a Rolls royce/Bentley of a tram system, whereas other cities are willing to put up with a Mondeo, a second hand refurbished VW, or even an old Trabant. (Apologies for the extended infernal combustion engine vehicle references, but a bike comparison would be unfair!)
Posted 11 years ago # -
Might be worth own thread if someone wants to start one.
Posted 11 years ago # -
Posted 11 years ago #
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I read somewhere that we specified special trams "in keeping with the world heritage nature" of Edinburgh that have a wheel-oiling system to reduce wheel squeal on the 90 degree turns required on the street. Apparently squeally wheels not in keeping with world heritage site, but endless rumbling procession of diesel-powered buses is. Probably added yet more cost.
Posted 11 years ago # -
http://www.scotsman.com/edinburgh-evening-news/ etc.
Oh god, why did I read the comments? It appears my neural pathways have melted.
Posted 11 years ago # -
"
The City of Edinburgh Council has stated its intention to ensure that an integrated approach is taken to public transport in the city and that this should be achieved by appointing the Council’s majority-owned company, Lothian Buses plc as the operator of the city’s tram network, rather than exploring other options in the market for delivery of a passenger running tram service."
http://www.edinburgh.gov.uk/download/meetings/id/37948/item_no_81-edinburgh_tram-operating_agreement
Posted 11 years ago #
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