CityCyclingEdinburgh Forum » Commuting

Told (gesticulated at) to use the cyclepath

(30 posts)
  • Started 12 years ago by Wilmington's Cow
  • Latest reply from recombodna

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  1. Dear Historic Scotland/Edinburgh Council/L&B Police

    Holyrood Park is, or at least should be, a gem in Edinburgh's crown. A respite from the city. A place for people to meander aimlessly, to relax. And then we plonk a couple of ruddy great busy roads through it.

    I'm not sure I know of anywhere else (save maybe Richmond Park, but that's not a central location) that hands such a green space haven over to traffic so willingly. And with annoying consequences, such as this morning. Are you sitting compfortably?

    I'm riding east to west, past St Margaret's Loch, and on to the first roundabout where it is my intention to turn right, and thereafter head in front of the Parliament Monstrosity. The speed limit, as I'm sure you are aware, is 20mph. I'm assuming that's what the signs and painted symbols on the road actually mean when they emblazon a large '20' for everyone to see, though I may be wrong and the limit might actually be 40, so I'm happy to be proven wrong on that.

    Anyway, there is and off-road cyclepath there, which is lovely. But it is also reasonably narrow, and, being shared use, quite rightly has pedestrians and dog walkers taking advantage of it. Therefore, my ability to ride at 20mph perfectly comfortably, and also wishing to make a right hand turn within less than half a mile, means that, on the road I am within and at the legal maximum velocity of traffic on that section; and would be too much of a danger to those around me if I were to take the cyclepath (as well as creating a problem less than half a mile on when I have to rejoin the busy traffic flow at a pinch point of the roundabout in order to cross to the Parliament).

    So, long story short. I was riding at 20mph in a 20mph zone. Following this? Good.

    It was therefore slightly surprisingly ironic that while partaking in an activity that is both entirely legal (riding on the road), at the maximum speed anyone on that road should be attaining, and safer for absolutely everyone concerned, that a car should draw alongside me and, with about 6 inches space to spare, gesticulate at me (leaving only one hand in control of the vehicle) that I should be on the cyclepath, before rushing off in excess of the oft-repeated above maximum speed limit.

    On catching him at the roundabout (as I knew I would, be of which he was seemingly oblivious) he carried on gesticulating, while I simply told him '20'. I don't think it sunk in to the pre-neolithic and slightly-geriatric mushy grey matter where once there was a brain.

    To compound matters, coming off the said roundabout, making my right turn, I was then cut up by the driver of a white BMW (which should have been a clue) for the sake of getting to the queue of traffic outside the Parliament 2 seconds quicker.

    So to my point (hurrah!). I understand various consultations are under way to drop the speed limit throughout the park to 20mph. Now while I would personally welcome a complete ban on traffic (and at the very least no cars on any of the roads on a Sunday) I realise that this view will come across as 'extremist' (even if it is is right) and therefore will be filed in the drawer marked 'bin'. But I would support a blanket 20mph limit, and at the same time some enforcement of the current 20mph limits.

    Will someone please think of the swans???!?

    Yours sincerely
    Hugs and kisses
    Anth

    Posted 12 years ago #
  2. ARobComp
    Member

    Please send this. Hero.

    Posted 12 years ago #
  3. DaveC
    Member

    I've been told I should be on the path, and at a different time on a cycle path. I just ignored the drivers. I had to stop myself from smashing ones windows in though, as later on on my cycle home I cycled past the van parked outside Adsa.

    Posted 12 years ago #
  4. Coxy
    Member

    Surely a speed camera on this section would generate enough revenue for the Council to pay for the trams?

    Posted 12 years ago #
  5. fimm
    Member

    @coxy this forum needs a like button
    :-)

    Posted 12 years ago #
  6. beerdrinker77
    Member

    Hahaha @coxy

    Not a bad idea however, I feel a wee letter to the Cooncil coming on.....

    Posted 12 years ago #
  7. Would it be a bit too politically incorrect to refer to anyone who waves wildly from a car at a cyclist that they deem should be on a cyclepath as a Gesticular Cancer?

    Posted 12 years ago #
  8. minus six
    Member

    "Gesticular Chancer" has an appropriate ring to it

    Posted 12 years ago #
  9. Baldcyclist
    Member

    I once had a debate with a First Bus driver who I overtook while I was filtering along the A8 at Gogarburn. He shouted out the window as i went past so I decided to wait (for about 3 minutes!!) at the next bus stop for him.

    He duly pulled over, and argued that I should be on the cycle path, and blamed me for holding everyone up! To which I replied "All of those people in the traffic there?", he confirmed that I was indeed holding everyone up???

    After the argument I got back on my bike, and continued to hold everyone up as I filtered past them all, to this day, I really don't think he understood the irony of what he was saying.

    Posted 12 years ago #
  10. crowriver
    Member

    Read Freud, folks. Sigmund, not Lucien nor Emma.

    Conscious/Pre-conscious/Sub-conscious.

    Are these drivers consciously aware of their attitudes and behaviour? Some, perhaps. Most of them, not a chance. Otherwise they wouldn't do it (unless they were complete psychopaths).

    Posted 12 years ago #
  11. crowriver
    Member

    Here's a very interesting link: Principles of Driving Psychology.

    I'm sure we can all recognise some of the personality types discussed!

    Posted 12 years ago #
  12. kaputnik
    Moderator

    I was honked at and given aggro this morning for being in the cycle lane!

    The mind boggles. Perhaps they would rather I had been on "their" road?

    Posted 12 years ago #
  13. custard
    Member

    I was honked at and given aggro this morning for being in the cycle lane!

    I once got shouted at for stopping at the red light from Chesser going onto Gorgie road.seems white van an took umbridge that my stopping caused the lights to go red on Gorgie road.

    Posted 12 years ago #
  14. "I was honked at and given aggro this morning for being in the cycle lane!"

    In Holyrood Park? Seriously???

    Posted 12 years ago #
  15. kaputnik
    Moderator

    @WC no this was at South Gyle on one of the lanes on the roudabout at junction of South Gyle Crescent and Broadway.

    Posted 12 years ago #
  16. paul.mag
    Member

    I had a yellow hack driver shout something at me the other day as I passed the RBS building approaching Gogar. Sadly he was doing more than the speed limit so his comments weren't audible. I like to think he was complementing me on reducing congestion and pollutants.

    Posted 12 years ago #
  17. Richie_B
    Member

    "Here's a very interesting link: Principles of Driving Psychology."
    Now, that's surprising! You don't see much good-psychology in the public domain. Still less well-written-for-the-audience-good-psychology.
    *impressed*

    Posted 12 years ago #
  18. Cycle PC
    Member

    Hello,

    With regards to the gesticulating etc, I can't really comment too much, however with regards to the 20 MPH issue, you may or not be aware of the following link: -

    http://www.lbp.police.uk/information/freedom_of_information/disclosure_log/2011/august/20_mph_speed_limits.aspx

    It is a Freedom of Information response in relation to enforcement of 20 MPH speed restrictions.

    Paul

    Posted 12 years ago #
  19. recombodna
    Member

    Was honked at on the old A1 Haddington bypass and gesticulated at for being an "Idiot"..... Thing is I was on a marked cyclepath..... So THEY WERE THE IDOTS. Ha HA!!

    Posted 12 years ago #
  20. Roibeard
    Member

    @Cycle PC - <sigh> Yes, this has been flagged before.

    It is actually a Freedom of Information response in relation to lack of enforcement of 20 MPH speed restrictions.

    Insufficient resources to enforce something that doesn't reduce KSI statistics. Pretty much sums up most traffic policing and accounts for the unchallenged, "low grade" bullying and aggression towards cyclists.

    We continually request that everyone behave courteously and expect motorists to be gentlemanly, and yet aggression has no consequences. Other countries recognise that motorists can't be relied on to behave, and there isn't the possibility of enforced decency, so segregate traffic instead.

    Robert

    Posted 12 years ago #
  21. It's just struck me (on top of being depressing that I hadn't realised the 20mph zones were already meaningless, and there's no point in me complaining about people exceeding the limit on any of them anymore) that if they're not enforced does this mean that it doesn't matter how quickly someone is going? (until they reach a point of dangerous driving obviously).

    But if speeds aren't monitored for enforcement purposes, driving at, say, 40 in a 20 zone simply won't be picked up?

    Posted 12 years ago #
  22. amir
    Member

    Wouldn't some level of enforcement must be good value for money in terms of making the 20mph policy work?

    Posted 12 years ago #
  23. Roibeard
    Member

    @WC - Pretty much. The only hope for some enforcement, is if there are so many complaints that the Police allocate some community-directed resource to have a temporary presence. You know, the same resource deployed for other minor, low KSI irritants like cycling on the pavement...

    Robert

    Posted 12 years ago #
  24. crowriver
    Member

    Clearly then if the police policy is not to enforce 20mph zones, cyclists will just have to continue to act as voluntary/involuntary traffic calming devices.

    Take primary, and get in the way. May be much beeping, shouting, gesticulating and aggressive, punishment pass overtakes as a result mind you.

    Posted 12 years ago #
  25. amir
    Member

    In the main part due to the strong NW wind this am, I decided to use the "cycle facilty" running from Dobbies to Gilmerton. This is basically a shared use pavement that has been widened a little. I normally just cycle on the road. In the past I have been "asked" to use the path by a "friendly" WVM - but actually that sort of thing doesn't seem to be a frequent occurrence.

    I usually find using this facility to be a slightly grim experience. The surface is rather bumpy and covered with debris and this tends to slow my progress. It's also pretty narrow - pedestrians use it as well - and there is a nasty blind corner.

    Today it was even worse - I had a visitation from the p*** fairy. Councils do not seem to sweep any paths as a routine (even frequently cycled paths). The oncoming traffic also added to the negative experience, with blinding lights and huge gusts from lorries. At the end of the cycle path it was difficult to cross back onto the main carriageway.

    Most of us accept that more facilties are required. But they must be well designed (why are we never asked?), well positioned and well maintained. Plus we should maintain the right to cycle on the road and be treated civilly by other users.

    Posted 12 years ago #
  26. Roibeard
    Member

    @amir - The spectre of loosing the right to cycle on the road continues to haunt UK cyclists, although I suspect this is extremely unlikely to happen.

    For a start, we're one of the few UK road users that don't require permission (a license) to be there and in addition, the right of cyclists to use roads has been enshrined in international law since at least 1968 (Vienna Convention on Road Traffic).

    Despite the assumption that UK road users will behave civilly, it is clear that they won't do so without enforcement, and we don't have enforcement at this level, only at the KSI level.

    I don't expect to be banned from the roads anytime soon, however being segregated from the bullies looks increasingly attractive...

    Robert

    Posted 12 years ago #
  27. wee folding bike
    Member

    Most of us accept that more facilties are required.

    Not all of us though.

    Roli, they tried to require cycle path use in the Highway code so I wouldn't get too sanguine there.

    Posted 12 years ago #
  28. amir
    Member

    by recombdna:
    "Was honked at on the old A1 Haddington bypass and gesticulated at for being an "Idiot"..... Thing is I was on a marked cyclepath..... So THEY WERE THE IDOTS. Ha HA!! "

    The old A1 running by Haddington through to Tranent has one of the best on-road cycle lanes in the area. They are pretty wide most of the route, almost wide enough to let two cyclists cycle side-by-side.

    Posted 12 years ago #
  29. crowriver
    Member

    The old A1 running by Haddington through to Tranent has one of the best on-road cycle lanes in the area. They are pretty wide most of the route, almost wide enough to let two cyclists cycle side-by-side.

    Yes, it's a great surface and a nice straight run too.

    Posted 12 years ago #
  30. recombodna
    Member

    Unless there' a head wind..... I would quite happily be segregated if the cycle paths were fit for porpois . Obviously this would only be on busy roads ad I can't see a day when every small country road has a separate cycle path.........or can I?

    Posted 12 years ago #

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