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Herald: Worrying rise in cycling injuries

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  1. chdot
    Admin

    "police and driver attitudes (shaped by the road layouts)"

    I think that has a lot to do with it.

    WHY the UK in general - and Edinburgh in particular - isn't willing to learn from elsewhere is something of a mystery.

    At many times over the past 60 years or so, people against 'roads' have been categorised as NIMBYs or 'anti-progress'. This is still much the case in terms of 'important infrastructure projects'.

    But in towns and cities it should be easier now. There must be many people wanting lower speeds, easier roads to walk across or take their children to school on (etc.) - and there ought to be (more) politicians who have noticed AND are will to take up the idea and especially confront the 'reality' that some of the same people want to be able to drive/park where they imagine they have the right to!

    Posted 11 years ago #
  2. gembo
    Member

    Car lobby has influence still ?

    Posted 11 years ago #
  3. gembo
    Member

    Car lobby has influence still ?

    Posted 11 years ago #
  4. crowriver
    Member

    WHY the UK in general - and Edinburgh in particular - isn't willing to learn from elsewhere is something of a mystery.

    Oh but we have. The problem is, the place the UK (Scotland included) continues to learn from the most is the USA. Which is pretty ridiculous as our population densities, urban architecture, etc. are much closer to the European norm. However due to our shared language, our culture is pretty much in thrall to that of the US. Until America decides to 'go Dutch' there's little hope the UK will.

    Posted 11 years ago #
  5. wee folding bike
    Member

    There are plenty of people who want other drivers to slow down but that might not be the same number as want to slow down themselves. A bit like the number of above average drivers.

    Have roads in Edinburgh changed much in 60 years? Obviously Glasgow has, to a quite high degree.

    Posted 11 years ago #
  6. SRD
    Moderator

    @morningsider, did wonder if that comment would stir up critique. I do think, however, that it is fair to not just blame big lobbyists - eg the car lobby, oil companies - and the politicians. there have been severall egregious cases of revolving door syndrome down south in the past few weeks. I'll dig out the references if you missed it.

    But I think it's important to realise that these decisions are not made straightforwardly - eg some big donor hands over a bag of cash to corrupt politician. It is much more complex than this. And in certain areas, civil servants do have a lot of influence. Wether that is true of our transport dept or not, I have no idea. I'd like to think not, the people I have met who work there seem very good and committed. But the point was more general - if what people thought equated to votes and thus to politicians supporting that cause, the world would be a very different place.

    Posted 11 years ago #
  7. chdot
    Admin

    "Until America decides to 'go Dutch' there's little hope the UK will"

    But that's the thing - it needn't be about 'copy the average'

    In US there are plenty of places to emulate (and why not try to be better than!!) - Portland, recent/current New York etc.

    There was a time when Edinburgh was ahead of most places...

    Posted 11 years ago #
  8. wee folding bike
    Member

    I don't think Burns was really from Edinburgh…

    Posted 11 years ago #
  9. SRD
    Moderator

    The US - or at least Chicago - seems to be doing something right: http://greenlaneproject.org/blog/view/chicago-active-trans-takes-an-active-role-in-promoting-green-lanes

    Posted 11 years ago #
  10. Claggy Cog
    Member

    @chdot - yes to your last post, but that was one hell of a long time ago!! Three hunner years!!.
    @wfb Burns may not have been born in Embra but he spent most of his life here, D@G a little too quiet and rural for his tastes.

    Posted 11 years ago #
  11. Cyclingmollie
    Member

    CC: "D@G a little too quiet and rural for his tastes"

    Shame, it's great cycling country.

    Posted 11 years ago #
  12. wee folding bike
    Member

    So good they invented the darn things there.

    Posted 11 years ago #
  13. Claggy Cog
    Member

    @Tom I concur, lovely county, very picturesque, and the roads do not have those little holes that cause you to bounce gently along your way or give you the benefit of a shower supplied by the passing car causing the splashing of water as it passes you by, on your daily commmute.

    Posted 11 years ago #
  14. sallyhinch
    Member

    Oh there are *plenty* of potholes in D&G, believe me...

    Posted 11 years ago #
  15. Cyclingmollie
    Member

    @wfb "So good they invented the darn things there"

    and immediately put to use to get to Glasgow faster iirc.

    Posted 11 years ago #
  16. chdot
    Admin

    From SRD's link -

    "

    buffered bike lane, and we’ve even gone beyond that and have kind of become a national leader in putting in green lanes. So it’s really exciting to see how quickly we’re making progress here. The pace of change is exciting and that it’s making people safer and getting people out biking.

    Do we have the most miles of protected bike lanes at this point?

    I believe New York is still ahead of us but we are rapidly catching up.

    Mike Amsden said CDOT wants to get to thirty miles of green lanes this year. Do you think that’s going to happen?

    Yes, I think we’ll get past thirty miles this year.

    "

    So who is Embra gonna emulate/compete with???

    Posted 11 years ago #
  17. crowriver
    Member

    As many folk will tell you, New York is not America.

    In any case the UK does not copy everything from the US. Just the crap stuff like multi-lane highways in the middle of cities, replacing rail and trams with buses, etc. Then we graft it on to largely unchanged Victorian (or older) infrastructure and wonder why it's not working.

    Posted 11 years ago #
  18. fimm
    Member

    http://www.heraldscotland.com/comment/herald-view/an-uphill-struggle-to-make-our-streets-safer-for-cyclists.19382029

    With only one comment which starts "The law should be changed to ban cyclists from pavements..."
    I can't be bothered to register just to point out that this is already the law... <sigh>.

    Posted 11 years ago #
  19. SRD
    Moderator

    Crowriver - did you read the article? It's about Chicago and how they've committed to building "150 miles of green lanes (110 miles protected and 40 miles buffered) by 2015" and are trying to finish 30 miles by the end of this year. But that NY is still ahead of them.

    Posted 11 years ago #
  20. I have some sympathy with WFB's view of the Herald piece (though I'm not mystified by cyclists having bother on commutes - it might not be every day, but I can see there's a lot of aggression/impatience out there and some of it directed at me).

    The article is perfectly well intentioned, and the writer is correct that it wants to put pressure on politicians to 'do something about it'. But it's a double-edged sword because people will often read into these things what they want. So I think there is scope for some politicians to react to this by thinking "helmets/hi-viz" because there's a sort of conditioning in that direction, and, perhaps most importantly, that's easy and costless compared to a re-allocation of roads budget to new infrastructure.

    Another example of how to read thigns comes in lines such as, "... evidence suggests drivers are more often to blame for accidents because they frequently fail to see cyclists"

    You and I will read that as 'drivers need to take more care to look properly'. The anti-cyclist brigade will say 'we don't see cyclists because they appear from nowhere, don't wear hi-viz, and don't use lights at night, so how can that be our fault?'.

    To be honest I think the balance between saying that the roads are dangerous (people being killed, no matter how few it might be, backs this up as reality), and trying to encourage people to get out on bikes, is an almost impossible line to walk. It becomes a convoluted message of, "The roads are safe, but sometimes they're dangerous, but people should be able to cycle ont he roads, although we want quality infrastructure like Denmark, and let's not even go anywhere near 'safety' equipment".

    I don't know the blogger's road in Glasgow, so can't comment - though if WFB's suggested alternative works then surely that has to be worth passing on (and is a huge echo of comments on here on another thread about a cyclist riding up the middle of Lothian Road when the 'correct' route suggested by a few was to go up Castle Terrace and onto the Bread Street contraflow). Interesting that in that case alternatives were suggested, then in the Glasgow case it's used as a 'she should be able to ride there' without alternatives being suggested. I presume it's just based on relative knowledge of the routes involved.

    In short, the article makes some good points; reinforces some stereotypes; is unlikely to put off regular cyclists; is unlikely to encourage new cyclists; is pretty much definitely not going to inspire political change; but is at least a national media outlet looking like it takes things seriously and doesn't land the blame at cyclists.

    Posted 11 years ago #
  21. chdot
    Admin

    "
    Cycling Scotland chief Ian Aitken said he would welcome more safety measures on the roads, even though casualty numbers are falling.

    He said: “There were 150 cyclists seriously injured on Scotland’s roads last year but that has halved from the 1994 rate of more than 300.”

    "
    http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/uk-world-news/mark-beaumont-bradley-wiggins-and-other-athletes-1426582

    Ah statistics...

    Posted 11 years ago #
  22. chdot
    Admin

    "
    Cycling Scotland chief Ian Aitken said he would welcome more safety measures on the roads, even though casualty numbers are falling.

    He said: “There were 150 cyclists seriously injured on Scotland’s roads last year but that has halved from the 1994 rate of more than 300.”

    "
    http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/uk-world-news/mark-beaumont-bradley-wiggins-and-other-athletes-1426582

    Ah statistics...

    Posted 11 years ago #
  23. SRD
    Moderator

    @wc - Well put- when I read that 'fail to see' line and thought it was rather poorly phrased.

    But this whole discussion also goes back to the blog post I linked to about the Telegraph article. We need to be really clear about what we are asking for, otherwise the solutions are likely to prove worse than the present situation.

    Posted 11 years ago #
  24. crowriver
    Member

    It's about Chicago and how they've committed to building "150 miles of green lanes (110 miles protected and 40 miles buffered) by 2015" and are trying to finish 30 miles by the end of this year. But that NY is still ahead of them.

    That's great. So in about 25 years' time UK cities will have caught up...

    Posted 11 years ago #

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