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Rights of Way and Scotland

(8 posts)
  • Started 12 years ago by sallyhinch
  • Latest reply from sallyhinch
  • This topic is not resolved

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  1. sallyhinch
    Member

    I'm wondering if you fantastically knowledgeable lot can help me here. We're trying to work out some safer routes to various schools in Dumfries. One of the larger secondary schools is very close to the existing traffic-free route along the river, but divided from it by a busy roundabout and a stretch of hostile road. A reasonable alternative and actually more direct route (currently informally used by a few local cyclists) is through and access road and carpark at the Nithbank, which is a complex of clinics owned by the NHS. We've asked them if they would be willing to make this a formal signposted route to the school but they've said no, because they are planning to sell the site at some point in the future and don't want to establish a right of way

    Part of me thinks that we should just be pursuing getting the road sorted out, rather than shovelling kids round through car parks, but that's going to take time and political will (which might be easier to come by if more than a handful of kids cycled to the school in question). The school is keen to see more cycling and walking, as are two local primary schools, so if we could work out a good safe route and lobby for a toucan crossing, we might see some progress using the cut through as a temporary route. So I was wondering what the legal position was in Scotland and whether there was any form of words the NHS could use that would protect themselves from establishing a right of way (assuming Right to Roam hasn't rendered that irrelevant by now). I seem to remember signs in England which imply that certain footpaths aren't rights of way, even though you're currently permitted to use them.

    I expect that if we solve that problem for them they will then come up with another reason why schoolkids cant' be encouraged to cycle through their land, but we can cross that bridge when we come to it

    Posted 12 years ago #
  2. chdot
    Admin

    I'm sure you'll get answers here, but don't forget about -

    http://www.scotways.com

    Also Sustrans.

    Might get some help from people here -

    http://friendsofcraighouse.com

    Posted 12 years ago #
  3. Dave
    Member

    I know in some places down south, they close paths for part of the year (sometimes even just a day) so there isn't a track record of continuous access. However, I'm not sure that applies here because the legal framework is so different.

    Posted 12 years ago #
  4. SRD
    Moderator

    As I understand it*, if people have been using that route, then a right of way (or whatever its called), may already exist. (we've discussed similar issues with ref to an NHS property here in Edinburgh)

    *my track record's not great

    Posted 12 years ago #
  5. Morningsider
    Member

    A "right of way" is pretty much what it says - a legal right to use a way that links two public places. Many rights of way exist without being formally recorded. Establishing whether any particular way is a right of way is pretty tricky - some general principles are:

    It follows a clearly defined route.
    It connects two places accessible to the public.
    It has been used by members of the public as a matter of right, i.e. not at the discretion of the landowner.
    It has been used for at least 20 years without interruption.

    There is no reason why new rights of way cannot be formally established, even though very broad access rights have been established by the Land Reform (Scotland) Act 2003. The question is whether it is worth the bother of trying to formally establish all of the above when people may already be able to use the route in question. I can't see how the NHS could prevent a route from being formally recorded as a right of way if it met the above criteria. However, getting a route to meet those criteria can be pretty tricky - particularly establishing use of 20+ years.

    Have you tried contacting the public health people in the NHS board - they are likely to be amenable to the idea of increased cycling and walking and could have some influence on this situation (might not though).

    Posted 12 years ago #
  6. Dave
    Member

    I have to admit, you'd think this particular obstacle could be surmounted by planners making it clear that a condition of redevelopment will be maintained access...

    Posted 12 years ago #
  7. fimm
    Member

    Morningsider, I think what sallyhinch is saying is that the NHS people do not want a Right of Way to be established. From your third point, it sounds as though if there is some way of making it clear that the cycle access is at the discretion of the landowner, then a right of way has not been established. I think...

    (I also think this is why you're supposed to have a permit to cycle on a towpath, i.e. to make it clear you are there at the discretion of the landowner).

    Posted 12 years ago #
  8. sallyhinch
    Member

    @Fimm - yup, I was looking for a way to persuade the landowner they didn't need to worry - although of course, if the route turns out to be useful and they do sell the site then we might be shooting ourselves in the foot there. I suppose by then, if lots of people are using it, there's more of a case to do the hard thing and sort the road out. I'm beginning to see why local cycle campaigners end up celebrating even the crappiest bit of infrastructure as it's been such a battle to get that in the face of tooth-and-nail opposition from organisations which you'd think had a stake in helping...

    Posted 12 years ago #

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