CityCyclingEdinburgh Forum » Infrastructure

Upper WoL path...

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  1. Dave
    Member

    Last night I had a crack at another possible commute by riding up to Balerno after work. Some will have seen on Strava..

    I didn't realise that one of the bridges on the canal is a flyover linking directly onto the WoL path, which is impressively unbroken (you can get from Balerno to a stone's throw from Lothian Rd without riding on any road at all).

    However... the surface was appalling! A couple of times I thought I might have a "cyclocross moment" in muddy pits (despite the Marathon Winters) and even when it was easily rideable it was very slow going. It took just under an hour to ride 12 miles, which is almost unbelievable (average 10mph on the WoL).

    Mega DETH helmet light would be needed for starters as my Cyo got so coated in grime that I couldn't see properly (although I didn't realise this was the cause until I got home!)

    I suppose that's why it was so quiet - just me and one pedestrian on the entire WoL path. What a shame it's not more accessible.

    Anybody here ride it regularly?

    (I returned on the road which was startlingly fast. I bet it's a bit grim in rush hour though)

    Posted 11 years ago #

  2. lionfish
    Member

    This was mentioned before on here when I was thinking of ideas for the south west neighbourhood partnership meetings. Most of the WoL is outside of the SW Edinburgh area (and in the Pentlands area, I think). Also improving the path would be well outside of the budget the meetings have. But... several people have said they would probably commute more on their bikes down there if it was surfaced better. Maybe the whole thing won't get done in one go, but it could be done in stages (from Edinburgh outwards - would need central council funding). Others have commented that they don't want to see yet more concrete poured over the countryside (prefer for the path to remain more natural). I wonder how many more people would use it if there was a better surface. Would a 'grit' surface be a good compromise? (people are concerned that disintegrates too quickly though, compared to asphalt).

    Looks like a nice commute route though (especially down hill :)

    Posted 11 years ago #

  3. chdot
    Admin

    "the surface was appalling!"

    Is that the goo below the tunnel or elsewhere too? (Haven't been up this winter.)

    You will have noticed that the tarmac runs out south of Lanark Road.

    That's as far as Sustrans got one time with money to hand.

    They would have liked to have kept going with (then) future funding, but the forces of conservatism kept saying 'we want to keep its rural charm'.

    Lighting was also a possibility. I think there is a very strong case for tarmac as far as Colinton (and lighting too). But...

    Posted 11 years ago #

  4. steveo
    Member

    People with clean land rovers complaining about tarmacking the country side...

    Posted 11 years ago #

  5. SRD
    Moderator

    from me on Sunday: "the mud was really a pain. With a decent surface, would ave been a lovely ride. The sides of my knees hurt now. I can only think it is because of the mud."

    I didn't think it needed paving, just some work done on the surface/drainage at the worst points.

    My stoker keen to help clean the bike though (weird kid).

    Posted 11 years ago #

  6. Dave
    Member

    I don't think it would necessarily need to be metalled as the canal is perfectly rideable (at the near end) in some sort of gravel. It might be more expensive ultimately though, if it doesn't last anything like as long.

    Considering that I have a 42mm tyre up front I was surprised how marginal the path was - I genuinely kept going out of a sense of bloody mindedness rather than pleasure. On a normal bike it would be quite incorrigible.

    I hate to think how difficult it would be to avoid dogs (or meandering people) in its current state. Fortunate it was deserted I suppose...

    [edit: of course, when it's light enough to see these things it will no doubt be rammed!]

    Posted 11 years ago #

  7. chdot
    Admin

    "My stoker keen to help clean the bike though (weird kid)"

    Children usually like mud at that age.

    Posted 11 years ago #

  8. steveo
    Member

    I don't see a problem metalling the main path frankly, its no different from the NEP, old railway lines running along (long) past industrial sites. The other side of the river can be left as is, its a little more "rural" and doesn't really go any where.

    Posted 11 years ago #

  9. wingpig
    Member

    I pop up it occasionally if a thorough clean of both bike and shoes is due anyway and if it's not knowingly rained heavily for a couple of days beforehand, not that it makes much difference to the worst bits. Only done it on the normal bike (23mm Armadillo/Gatorskin) so far but as soon as DHL/Parcelforce deliver my dynamo and related components for the 35mm-enabled spare I'll try it on that.

    Any considerable improvement to the surface would need careful consideration in order to mitigate the risk of speed-hoggery, though it's mostly a lot wider than the canal.

    Posted 11 years ago #

  10. cb
    Member

    Unsurfaced paths everywhere are in a terrible condition this year due to the ground holding so much water. Walking on muddy paths is pretty tiresome I find. I think it's just horse riders (and small children) who like muddy paths.

    Posted 11 years ago #

  11. SRD
    Moderator

    On Sunday morning people were pretty considerate about their dogs.

    "On a normal bike it would be quite incorrigible."

    Mr SRD rode his mostly dead Streetfinder...

    Posted 11 years ago #

  12. Dave
    Member

    @WP

    Coming down as it is I imagine people can go fast enough to hurt... whenever they need to stop.

    (Or if you think of it the other way around, we'd never suggest improving safety by covering any road or path in inches of mud)

    Posted 11 years ago #

  13. steveo
    Member

    (Or if you think of it the other way around, we'd never suggest improving safety by covering any road or path in inches of mud)

    Not a bad idea, maybe return the approach road back to the surface it had pre-road building mania. Minus the rails...

    Posted 11 years ago #

  14. chdot
    Admin

    "I didn't think it needed paving, just some work done on the surface/drainage at the worst points."

    Well yes but.

    Something is done every few years.

    At a minimum it needs scraping when in needs scraping - i.e. long before it gets as bad as it currently is.

    The basic problem is that CEC keeps using far too much whin dust which packs down eventually when it's dry.

    Then it gets mixed with local clay-based mud AND the annual leaf fall.

    Tarmac would be much easier to clear.

    Posted 11 years ago #

  15. SRD
    Moderator

    "Tarmac would be much easier to clear."

    not judging by the state of the west end of North meadow Walk (NMW), which is currently covered in mud-mould slime.

    Posted 11 years ago #

  16. AKen
    Member

    I used to use the Water of Leith path daily for my commute. When it's dry, it's wonderful - peaceful, traffic-free, gentle climbs and sheltered from the wind. When it's wet though, it's really unpleasant. Howevet, I do think it is worse now than it used to be. As mentioned above, the amount of rain has made unsurfaced paths generally very muddy and, at some point, what seems to be special anti-cycling mud was applied to some stretches, particularly up to the tunnel at Colinton.

    I do like using this route - it was great before Christmas when everything was frozen but I tend to avoid it now if I think it will be wet. I'd love it if there was better surface on the path.

    Posted 11 years ago #

  17. gembo
    Member

    I stopped using it one summer when it got too muddy. However, when it is dry I am on it as often as possible as it is great up as well as down as very gradual incline. We previously debated tarmac or a better surface but there are objections re tarmac-ing over the countryside I think is the general thrust. The whin dust hasn't worked. the area at the tunnel used to be muddy but you could cycle through it, now risk coming to a standstill.

    The canal itself out to Heriot Watt then through the university and up to Currie is another quiet commuting route.

    THe flyover Dave has discoverd used to have a yacht parked up for 25 years in house next to it. Last time we went down this line the owner's daughter chipped in, twas a great landmark.

    Posted 11 years ago #

  18. SRD
    Moderator

    That stretch between the canal and the WoL is very bad for pedestrians, joggers and dogs.

    This is not helped by the steep uphill, where sudden braking to avoid people coming downhill may annoy cyclists behind you....

    Posted 11 years ago #

  19. kaputnik
    Moderator

    The maintenance "regime" for the WoL path over last few years seems to have been "dump more whindust on it". Mixed with water, leafmulch and mud, you get that gooey grinding paste that holds water. An advantage to a proper (metalled) surface would be that it doesn't need frequent maintenance to keep it in good condition, just the occasional cleaning of leafmulch and gritting and salting.

    I took my frankenCX bike up it in November. It was good fun, but for all the wrong reasons when it's meant to be a cycle and foot path.

    Posted 11 years ago #

  20. friskiffla
    Member

    I go down the muddy Colinton section every day in an effort to avoid having to go up and over the Gillespie Crossroads (it is the traffic rather than the hill that I am trying to avoid). I have grudgingly come to accept the mud, and all the extra bike care that results.

    Posted 11 years ago #

  21. Dave
    Member

    It was hard to tell in the dark what was wrong with the surface tbh. I assumed none of it was surfaced at all (apart from the inside of the large tunnel) whereas it sounds like some of it might be, but just covered with landslip (edit: deliberately covered as "maintenance") going from the conversation above.

    Personally I could envision rebuilding onto a frame which would take 50mm tyres and just attacking the mud, but apparently we have to think long-term, and so the wife / kids would need to be able to ride on normal bikes!

    As well as campus to canal it looks like you can get from Balerno into Colinton via Torduff (sp?) reservoir, although I'm not sure that helps much, as I wouldn't fancy riding into town on Colinton rd. Accessing the canal then NEPN would be the ideal.

    I might give it a try on my MTB to see how much that improves things.

    Posted 11 years ago #

  22. fimm
    Member

    "it is meant to be a cycle and foot path"
    Is it? I like it as a place to walk (or, in my case, run). I'd be against tarmac. If you want tarmac, there's a perfectly good road running parallel to it.

    Posted 11 years ago #

  23. SRD
    Moderator

    @fimm it is signposted as NCN 75 ....

    Posted 11 years ago #

  24. wingpig
    Member

    @D

    "Coming down as it is I imagine people can go fast enough to hurt... whenever they need to stop."

    Imagine the possibilities if it were all smoothytarmacadamed. At the moment, people are able to and can go very fast down the upper WoL. At the moment, people try to go too fast on the canal, wrongly assuming it to be a high-speed commuter route. At the moment, some people go too fast downhill on Leamington Walk, increasing the risk of (not necessarily the occurrence of) interpersonal impact-based unpleasantness, including the occasional need for evasive action. If the slopey upper WoL had a surface on which more people felt they might go faster, some problems common to the downhilliness of Leamington Walk and the off-road cycle zoomwayness of the canal might occur.

    Posted 11 years ago #

  25. steveo
    Member

    If you want tarmac, there's a perfectly good road running parallel to it.

    I take it then you never use any non-road cycle path?

    Posted 11 years ago #

  26. cb
    Member

    "looks like you can get from Balerno into Colinton via Torduff"

    Or you could try (from Balerno)...

    This private road to start with:
    http://edinburgh.cyclestreets.net/journey/10661123/

    I've never been along here but surface looks good at either end, but I guess there could be gates or a general feeling of unwelcomeness (Gembo might know?)

    Then there is a path/track linking Blinkbonny Road to Woodhall Road. CycleStreets doesn't seem to want to use it, I don't know if that means that there is a problem with it. I have a feeling it was all driveable at one point though so can't be that bad?

    Here is Google Streetview of the Blinkbonny end:

    http://goo.gl/maps/WHIy1

    That takes you into Colinton on a much flatter route than Torduff.

    To avoid Colinton Road into town you could make use of the Oxgangs to Greenhill Village route (which is generally how I get back to Morningside from Colinton):

    http://edinburgh.cyclestreets.net/journey/10661393/

    Then you could cut through to Braid Av, Canaan Lane, etc.

    Probably quite a complex route overall, but once you're used to it...

    Posted 11 years ago #

  27. AKen
    Member

    The route that cb mentions would be slower that Lanark Road but, if time's not an issue, very pleasant.

    The private road mentioned is known locally as the Lymphoy Road. Bit bumpy in parts but otherwise very good. Certainly neither gates nor a feeling of un-welcomeness.

    Similarly, the path linking Blinkbonny and Woodhall Road is also perfectly good. It used to be very narrow and over-grown but has been much improved recently.

    Both sections are easy to follow once you're on them.

    Taking a route via Torduff is very scenic but involves a lot of climbing.

    Posted 11 years ago #

  28. mnd
    Member

    Chipping in here because not everyone who doesn’t want tarmac is a landrover owning NIMBY! I love the WoL path as it is - well maybe not quite as muddy as it is now – but that’s down to wet weather and badly thought out resurfacing last time it was done (esp near the tunnel). Tarmac seems an extreme reaction to that and I’d have very mixed feelings about it. I cycle up the path every so often to visit pals in Colinton and Currie, and the surface has def got worse in the last couple of years. But like Fimm, I’m also a runner, and my main use of the WoL path is to run, often several times a week. The lack of tarmac is a big part of the upper WoL’s appeal – it’s nice to feel that you are somewhere a bit less urban – and it’s easier on the knees! It’s one of my favourite places in the city.

    It’s a tricky one, but that path isn’t just for cyclists, and a measure that would make the path better for those of us on two wheels could well have a negative impact for other users.

    (And yes, I know that probably cycle use would increase if it was tarmac, and more people on bikes is A Good Thing, but like wingpig, I’d worry that the congestion and consideration problems we see on the canal would just manifest themselves on the WoL too – especially given that superspeedy downhill).

    Posted 11 years ago #

  29. steveo
    Member

    Don't take this personally but opposing tarmacking the route because you like it the way it is for running is the definition of nimbyism.

    That route would take many people off the fast (for cars) and potholed Lanark Road, I'd say getting cyclists off a road as busy and slow (going up) would be as high a priority as many that have been campaigned for, arguably should be a higher priority than the QBC at least this would have a demonstrable effect.

    Posted 11 years ago #

  30. Smudge
    Member

    Again, not intended personally, but I took the point/s not as nimbyism but as a reasoned argument against a single interest group dominating a resource suitable for all.
    I grew up in Currie and still often use the wol, the whin dust nonsense is indeed terrible, but tarmac without very carefully thought out traffic (cycle!) Control measures would be a surefire recipe for conflict imo.
    At minimum you'd want *segregated* ped and cycleways, because I'm certain the cycleway would become a 30mph racetrack heading into town.

    Posted 11 years ago #

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