How is it today?
Have a secret assignation near Edinburgh Park Station at lunchtime.
Is the gritting (from last week) still working?
Was it done again?
CityCyclingEdinburgh Forum » Infrastructure
Broomhouse Path
(242 posts)- Started 11 years ago by chdot
- Latest reply from steveo
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Posted 11 years ago #
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a secret assignation
Hopefully not the new KFC next door ;-)
Posted 11 years ago # -
Ah yes, the new drive-through KFC, shortly to be joined by drive-through Krispy Kreme. Evidence that Scotland has learned nothing and won't be satisfied until there's a drive through per head of population.
Posted 11 years ago # -
It's still a snarl of tramworks at the east end, with the cycle half of the path encroached by fencing. There's a dismount sign before that as one is heading east but not west. I'm not sure if that means it's still open to cyclists going west, or just another inconsiderate fail by the tram folk. If I had to choose which direction to maintain cycling on the path, it would be east, since there's two lanes going west.
Either way I stay on the road until the Saughton Road junction and use the signalled right turn to join the path there.
Once you've battled your way onto the path, it has been well swept and gritted the alst few days, but I suspect this morning's fall won't be cleared by lunchtime.
Nelly reports the gritting stops at Makros.
Posted 11 years ago # -
To be fair, the Saughton to Broomhouse part of the pathway is relatively clear other than the roadworks in Saughton taking the road down to one lane each way and removing the cycling for 50m - noticed 'no cycling' signs up last night at the bit where pedestrians are redirected to walk on the road surface. There's a couple of skatey slushy patches with underlying ice on the path from the roundabout, passing the football pitches, to Makro that I'd not fancy on skinnies but would be fine on a heavier bike with chunkier tyres.
I whimped out of my commute yesterday and today and stuck to walking... Though in the three years since I've walked anywhere, the pedestrian masses have strangely decided that keeping to the right when walking is now the done thing. I thought the general British rule of thumb when on foot was keep left and queue?
Posted 11 years ago # -
"
In the initial design for Edinburgh Park Station Tramstop the cycle route through this area was on the north side of the platform. Concerns were raised on this design by both the operator and the Independent Competent Person (who assesses the design in place of the HMRI since the rail safety regulations changed). They expressed concerns about cyclists interacting with passengers on the actual platform and at the tram rail crossings. To address their concerns the tram designer moved the cycleway northwards and introduced a landscape strip between this facility and the platform. In addition cyclists are not permitted to cycle over the tram crossing. If they choose to cross the rails at this point they are required to dismount and push their bikes."
Tram team
Posted 11 years ago # -
In addition cyclists are not permitted to cycle over the tram crossing. If they choose to cross the rails at this point they are required to dismount and push their bikes.
OK, I'm assuming this "independent competent person" is NOT a cyclist. So what they're saying is they've severed the ability to cycle betwixt Hermiston Gait or the canal at Cultins Road without a significant detour around?
I'm slightly confused about "north side of the platform" references, because the cycle path still is on the north side of the platform. And was.
Also, if they had concerns about interactions of passengers and cyclists (which are valid) then why on EARTH weren't they obliged to put in a segregated crossing here? What do we expect? This. Is. Edinburgh.
Letters to be written.
Posted 11 years ago # -
In addition cyclists are not permitted to cycle over the tram crossing. If they choose to cross the rails at this point they are required to dismount and push their bikes.
What could be more successful than a solution which is needlessly inconvenient and relies on people breaking up their journey and dismounting? Imagine if solutions to these issues could be engineered (perhaps using readily available design patterns from continental Europe) rather than engineering conflict.
</Predicts future EEN and "CCE angst" topics>
Posted 11 years ago # -
The cycle path is on the south side of the tram platform and the tram track as heading west you have to turn right and cross the tram tracks / tram platform to access the station. If you are intending to catch train into Edinburgh you would take the tunnel under the train track and then the path would be north of the tram rail as it always has been. That is my interpretation of the text. However, I could be wrong as the text, just like the layout at Edinburgh park is confused.??
Posted 11 years ago # -
"the layout at Edinburgh park is confused"
Well that's an understatement!
The idea that bikes are not allowed to cycle across the tracks at a crossing is news to me. No idea if it's actually illegal. Absolutely no idea how they would police it - can't imagine it will be an L&B/new Scottish police force priority.
Might be talking about here -
Don't suppose this is only crossing on the line that the 'new rule' could applied to???
Posted 11 years ago # -
@gembo no I'm still confused. But I think it's because I'm imagining this from the point of view of coming under the railway through the tunnel, at which point the path is between the tram and train lines and therefore on the north. There is a nice new bit of path running between Bankhead Road and Edinburgh Park that we're not allowed to use yet, and that I'm not sure how we're going to get to access as it too is to the north of the tram tracks whereas preceding section of Broomhouse Path on other side of South Gyle Access is on the south of tram tracks. I assume one will be expected to do a dismount also.
One of the baffling bits about the Edinburgh Park layout is that the path starts off below the level of the tram tracks as it leaves the tunnel under the railway, then climbs level with it. At this point you'd think it would be ideal to build a short stretch of tarmac and create a level crossing for pedestrians and cyclists to cross the tram tracks, but no, the path continues to climb until it's about a foot higher than the level of the tracks, requiring the complicated downhill switchback with completely compromised turning circles and that apparently we're not to be allowed to use after all.
Posted 11 years ago # -
Worth looking up regulations regarding cycling over level crossings (vehicle and pedestrian) as I assume that's where the precedent has been taken from?
Posted 11 years ago # -
Cyclists Dismount all the way.
TiE.
They expressed concerns about cyclists interacting with passengers on the actual platform and at the tram rail crossings.
You have to love how "concerns" about cyclists getting in peoples way are immediately addressed by "Cyclists Dismount" whereas any concerns about cyclists being routed under trams, buses, cars and taxis are dismissed completely to the point that such routes are keenly encouraged.
Posted 11 years ago # -
I suppose it might mean the crossing at the east end of the tram stop, where there are steps.
Posted 11 years ago # -
Maybe here -
(Crossing in background).
Another day in Tram La Land.
I mean World Class Cycling City.
Posted 11 years ago # -
Well, have google-trawled relevant Network Rail and Office of Rail Regulation and Highway Code documents, and there's nothing that jumped out prohibiting you from cycling across an approved crossing (unless you are on your own and it's a user-operated gated crossing, you are to dismount. But that's just common sense).
Looked at the Edinburgh Trams draft bye-laws, relevant bits I found were;
11.(6) No person shall cross any part of the tram track comprised in the Edinburgh Tram Infrastructure other than in a safe and orderly manner using designated crossings where provided, paying due care and attention to any signs and to the position and motion of trams and any other vehicles or persons and save by using the safest possible route and otherwise in such a manner as to cause the minimum of nuisance and interference to operation of the ETN and other persons.
9.(6) Except with the permission of an Authorised Person, no person shall enter or remain on any part of any tramstop for the purposes of skateboarding, roller skating, roller blading, cycling motorcycling or other similar recreational activity.
15. (1) Subject to the provisions of Byelaw 15(2) any person who enters any part of a tram or tramstop must do so on foot, and any person remaining thereon must be on foot, except:-
(a) where there is a notice displayed permitting access to that part of a tram or tramstop to those using specified conveyances; or
(b) where the Operator or an Authorised Person has given permission,
and in either case he shall obey any instructions given by a notice displayed or by an Authorised Person.So I guess if they class the crossing point as part of the tramstop you would be oblidged to do so "on foot"? And would have to obey any "dismount" sign (so long as it's part of the tramstop).
Still, it's not clear, and I imagine they've worded the bye-laws in such a way as for there to be multiple grey-manners in which they can punish people for daring to cycle.
Posted 11 years ago # -
save by using the safest possible route and otherwise in such a manner as to cause the minimum of nuisance and interference to operation of the ETN and other persons.
This could be taken to allow cyclists complete freedom across Atholl Place, South St Andrew Street, Haymarket Terrace et al. because the safest possible route is entirely dependent on the road and track layout and the skill level of the operator of the bicycle, and if it inconveniences other people in the process that's just tough.
no person shall enter or remain on any part of any tramstop for the purposes of skateboarding, roller skating, roller blading, cycling motorcycling or other similar recreational activity.
I cycle for transport. I also cycle for recreation.
I think this evening I'm going to have yet another look at the layout of EDP tram stop. I love Edinburgh, but I hate this stupid city.
Posted 11 years ago # -
But will they? You'd cycle across and then you'd be gone. Unless you've mowed down a swathe of pedestrians while doing it then who'd going to to know or care?
Posted 11 years ago # -
who'd going to to know or care?
The sinister "authorised person" referred to throughout the Bye-Laws. In a fluourescent vest, of course.
Posted 11 years ago # -
Tin hat on, but I dont have any issue with the EP tramstop design - as I will rarely be in the station - the delights of the Hermiston Gait retail park are lost on me.
But if I do need to go there its not that difficult.
Most cyclists going to / from Edinburgh Park come from the East, and as soon as they open the old/new bike path - in chdots photo above - it gives direct access to the underpass without any need to be in the station at all.
Yep, you need to cross the tracks, but its not a problem. I can only imagine that they recommend getting off in case someone doesnt look and is hit by a tram.
Posted 11 years ago # -
"I can only imagine that they recommend getting off in case someone doesnt look and is hit by a tram."
Fine, but not same as -
"
In addition cyclists are not permitted to cycle over the tram crossing. If they choose to cross the rails at this point they are required to dismount and push their bikes."
Posted 11 years ago # -
And anyway, given that most cyclists ignore most "Cyclists Dismount" signs, who thinks that they're going to behave any differently around this one?
Posted 11 years ago # -
"most cyclists ignore most "Cyclists Dismount" signs"
And maybe -
ones too!
Maybe it means 'if you see a cyclist please dismount'...
Posted 11 years ago # -
I'd been meaning to post that, its a little unfair to pick on the designated "Cyclist" wonder who s/he is.
Posted 11 years ago # -
"wonder who s/he is"
FoI request??
Posted 11 years ago # -
It means that if the cyclist is there you have to diss their mount.
Posted 11 years ago # -
Dismount? Chance of getting over that side onto the shared pavement would be a fine thing!
Posted 11 years ago # -
It means that if the cyclist is there you have to diss their mount.
What by implying their bike is some kind of weird browny Coffee/Muck colour and not sand?
Posted 11 years ago # -
I would never do such a thing! I don't know what you mean!
Posted 11 years ago # -
Nelly/Kaputnik: is that sign new? Until chdot's photo I'd not noticed it. The placement is hilarious.
Posted 11 years ago #
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