Best 'Must Get Past' for a while.. « CityCyclingEdinburgh Forum

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Best 'Must Get Past' for a while..

(29 posts)

Started 14 years ago by Wilmington's Cow
Latest reply from recombodna

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Wilmington's Cow
Member

Heading onto Melville Drive this morning there's a siren going behind. I'm checking regularly to see if the ambulance is going to come the same way, which it is. I'm not checking in order to get out of the way - being a bike in a cycle lane I'm basically out of the way anyway, but I like to know if any cars haven't spotted it and might be liable to swerve into me.

Anyway, it is coming the same way, so I check out the cars going past. The first is a while before the ambulance is due to arrive at us, but the guy behind him looks in the mirror, sees the ambulance, puts the foot down, goes past, then indicates left and stops in the bike lane ahead of me.

Naturally a further 50 yards on there's the Melville Drive tailback, so I scoot on my merry way anyway... Too sunny and ncie a day for it to be perturbing.

Posted 14 years ago #
spytfyre
Member

nice

Posted 14 years ago #
SRD
Moderator

I always stop for ambulances. I thought one was supposed to, cycle lane or no. Am frequently taken aback by number of cars over here that just 'slow down' while pulling over, but continue to roll forward. I thought the whole point was that ambulance drivers shouldn't have to keep track of moving vehicles on their path, even if well to the left.

I would just assume car driver thought you would stop too.

Posted 14 years ago #
Dave
Member

I haven't really thought about it before, but I don't know what is expected, where there is more than one lane.

On a stretch of road which has multiple (car) lanes, you'd expect everyone to move over but not to stop once they're in the leftmost lane. So, a cyclist in the bike lane surely wouldn't stop for an ambulence in the 'traffic' lane (notwithstanding that cars may stop in front of you and it's probably a bad idea to overtake them in front of the ambulence!!! ;-)

Posted 14 years ago #
spytfyre
Member

I was trying to find this on the highway code website but no joy
If everyone stopped dead on the left lane there would be no way to "merge in turn" to allow cars from the right lane to pull in front and out of the right lane?

Posted 14 years ago #
Wilmington's Cow
Member

From one website checked out so far (there doesn't appear to be a specific direction in the Highway Code - going to have to resort to the primary legislation):

"If you can pull over to the side of the road and safely stop, then this is what you should do, indicating your intention by signalling to the other road users around you. However you should avoid stopping on or near a hill, a bend, a section of the road that narrows or any other obviously dangerous area.

Most importantly, do not put yourself, passengers, other road users or pedestrians in danger - do not mount the kerb unless you absolutely have to, and even then, only if you are certain there are no pedestrians in the area.

Don't 'slam on' your brakes, or stop on a junction or roundabout as you may well end up in the middle of an accident yourself. Don’t imagine that you need to get out of the way no matter what.

Emergency vehicle drivers are specially trained and have exemptions to the law that you don't have, so you must not go through red lights or speed to allow them to pass. To do so is incredibly dangerous, and if caught, it will not help your defence that you broke the law to allow the emergency vehicle to pass. The best thing you can do is to try and remove yourself calmly and carefully from the path of the emergency vehicle, taking care to note what other drivers around you are doing, and making sure that the path you are taking is a safe one."

Posted 14 years ago #
Wilmington's Cow
Member

I should also say that if we had been approaching a junction etc. then there would have been no question - I would have stopped in case that ambulance was turning into the junction - but I was halfway between the entrance to Melville Drive and the first junction, and a check ahead showed no-one to the side of the road in distress etc.

Plus, with vehicular traffic around the ambulance was always going to be way further right than my little lane...

Posted 14 years ago #
SRD
Moderator

Still, this "If you can pull over to the side of the road and safely stop, then this is what you should do" is pretty clearcut to me.

Posted 14 years ago #
Wilmington's Cow
Member

As is, "... do not put yourself, passengers, other road users or pedestrians in danger..." - a lot of other information I'm finding online (sadly none of it definitive) states that you shouldn't just 'stop' but assess whether it's safe to do so.

And sure, "If you can pull over to the side of the road and safely stop," includes making sure you don't swerve in front of a cyclist you've just accelerated to get in front of before then slamming on the brakes?

Looks like there really are no definitive rules, and I personally think a blanket 'stop when you here a siren (when safe to do so)' is a bit too belt and braces. But that's my personal opinion, and without a specific rule or law neither of us is actually right or wrong.

Posted 14 years ago #
SRD
Moderator

Sorry. My feelings on this obviously tainted by being in an ambulance with someone much more badly injured than me, and seeing cars fail to clear the road despite full lights and siren.

And yes, I know, that passengers aren't usually allowed in ambulances but in this case there weren't enough ambulances and I was the only one able to walk/situp, so I got to ride in with a friend. Not a nice experience.

Posted 14 years ago #
Wilmington's Cow
Member

I can never understand seeing cars not clearing the way at all - there's a hulking great big white van behind you with flashing blue lights and a siren. How can you not know it's there?!?!? I've pulled in to the side when in the car before in slow moving traffic and ended up beeping my horn at the car in front not noticing the ambulance.

Equally, on the bike, I've heard a siren while waiting to come out of a traffic lit junction (granted I can hear better out on the bike) and not gone on my green, had the car behind honk me, and the car to the right set off despite my waves of protest only to cause himself and the ambulance driver to execute near perfect emergency stops.

Posted 14 years ago #
SRD
Moderator

"Equally, on the bike, I've heard a siren while waiting to come out of a traffic lit junction (granted I can hear better out on the bike) and not gone on my green, had the car behind honk me, and the car to the right set off despite my waves of protest only to cause himself and the ambulance driver to execute near perfect emergency stops."

This has happened to me several times crossing South Clerk Street - no emergency stops, but unhappy drivers behind, who eventually realize why I didn't go.

Posted 14 years ago #
cb
Member

This happened to me the other week too - held up some revving cars as aI could here a siren approaching. You defintely have a better idea of what is going on a round you when on the bike.

I did once overtake a fire engine that had its blue light on.

Posted 14 years ago #
LaidBack
Member

I did once overtake a fire engine that had its blue light on.

That calls for a new thread ;-0
What's the most reckless thing you've done on your bike etc....

I'm sure there was a perfectly good reason. Was there?

Posted 14 years ago #
cb
Member

Actually it's not that exciting and a bit off topic seeing as I wasn't on a bike at the time.
It was on the M9. Fully laden fire engines can't actually go that fast, particularly up hill. It was probably doing around 60.

Mind you I can remember the poor soldiers driving a Green Goddess flat out along the M4 getting passed by everyone. I was in a bus and we *flew* past.

Posted 14 years ago #
SRD
Moderator

You realise that we're all sitting here disappointed, with our visions of your jet-propelled bike whizzing along dashed?

Posted 14 years ago #
spytfyre
Member

I'm not...

Posted 14 years ago #
recombodna
Member

I don't understand the OP. Did the guy accelerate past the car in front and then pull into the left?

Posted 14 years ago #
Wilmington's Cow
Member

No, he accelerated past me on my bike...

This morning saw another prime example of not paying attention. On the Western Approach Road (the bit you're allowed on before I turn right). Ambulance has gone through, blue lights on, but slowly and only one person up front, so presumably some poor sod being seen to in the back with an injury that can't be jarred much). It's heading towards Lothian Road, so a few seconds later the siren comes on because it's obviously reached that point where it needs to warn people.

Motorcyclist heading in the same direction a wee way behind slams on the brakes, looking to his left (at the road I'm waiting to turn into) clearly having just heard the siren and thinking an ambulance is coming out of there. The van behind executes a nice emergency stop to avoid running into the back of him - motorcyclist all flustered fluffs a gear change, then does as all people caught out like that do, revs the engine massivle and roars off (though he does wave an apology to the van behind).

Pay attention people!

Posted 14 years ago #
1lesscar
Member

Rule 219 of Highway code states: -

"Emergency and Incident Support vehicles.

You should look and listen for ambulances, fire engines, police, doctors or other emergency vehicles using flashing blue, red or green lights and sirens or flashing headlights, or Highways Agency Traffic Officer and Incident Support vehicles using flashing amber lights. When one approaches do not panic. Consider the route of such a vehicle and take appropriate action to let it pass, while complying with all traffic signs. If necessary, pull to the side of the road and stop, but try to avoid stopping before the brow of a hill, a bend or narrow section of road. Do not endanger yourself, other road users or pedestrians and avoid mounting the kerb. Do not brake harshly on approach to a junction or roundabout, as a following vehicle may not have the same view as you."

So basically have a look around, don't panic, pull in and stop if you have to, without endangering anybody else.

Simple . . . . . although it often appears not to be!

Posted 14 years ago #
Wilmington's Cow
Member

Completely missed that in the HC - as stated above, sadly not backed up by actual legislation. But yes, one of those things that should be simple but so often shown not to be!

Posted 14 years ago #
TwoWheels
Member

Would you guys please export some common sense? In my neck of the woods, everybody seems to think that *all* cars have to stop, even those on the opposite side of the road from the emergency vehicle. Talk about overkill.

Posted 14 years ago #
SRD
Moderator

I'd prefer to see the good habits flow east over the Atlantic thanks!

Posted 14 years ago #
TwoWheels
Member

Yeesh. All that time and effort exporting "The Dukes of Hazzard," and you're still not satisfied.

Posted 14 years ago #
spytfyre
Member

yeah but they gave us the A-Team so that evens out...
and Airwolf...
And the Blues Brothers - but then we gave them Monty Python so that's a difficult one to judge...

Posted 14 years ago #
recombodna
Member

Don't forget streethawk!! Extra double bad!!

Posted 14 years ago #
Kirst
Member

And Manimal.

Posted 14 years ago #
spytfyre
Member

@recombodna - *winces* I was trying hard not to think about streethawk...

Posted 14 years ago #
recombodna
Member

Ha ha! It's so bad it's good and you know it!!

Posted 14 years ago #

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